BayRaider's 2020 NFL Prospect Rankings 2.0 (Page 2)

[HoboRocket]

46 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

It’s a huge knock though. His game tape speed is really slow. Really slow. I anticipate separation issues. I expect a 4.55 - 4.57 type of 40 yard dash from him. And while there has been receivers successful with these type of times, the only one comparable to Lamb that has been successful is Hopkins. Plus Hopkins game tape speed is faster. And I do not view Lamb as being anywhere close to Hopkins. I think Lamb will be a solid physical WR2 in the NFL and have a 1st Round Grade on him. Like I said, there are other WRs with bad 40’s like Michael Thomas and Allen Robinson but these guys are built like the Hulk with a solid overall game. Lamb is a smaller WR. 

Cooper Kupp and Juice Landry both ran terrible 40 times. Hard to imagine Lamb running slower than them.

[BayRaider]

Just now, HoboRocket said:

Cooper Kupp and Juice Landry both ran terrible 40 times. Hard to imagine Lamb running slower than them.

Yeah but Kupp plays in one of the two most friendly WR schemes in the NFL (LA/SF). If SF could somehow land Lamb, he’d be absolutely fantastic there. 

[Chiefer]

Your thoughts on Michael Pittman Jr.?

can he be a successful X Receiver In the NFL?

[BayRaider]

30 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Your thoughts on Michael Pittman Jr.?

can he be a successful X Receiver In the NFL?

I unfortunately do not, and I usually love USC WRs. I see Pittman as depth or a WR4  in a heavy pass offense. 
 

Not impressed with his routes, speed, or separation. While I’ve said I’m concerned about Lambs separation, it pales in comparison to my worry for Pittman. It is not just his route and speed that cause lack of separation, but hips are super stiff (a concern I have about Reagor). I just can’t see him creating much separation at the next level. And while his catch in traffic is amazing, it’s not “wow” enough to be a starting WR imo. 

His size is fantastic and his catch in traffic is pretty good but I’m just not sold on him. I’d say Early 4th Rd Grade. 
 

I’m much higher on Tyler Johnson who is somewhat similar. I’d give Johnson a Early 3rd Round Grade. 

[offbyone]

2 hours ago, HoboRocket said:

Cooper Kupp and Juice Landry both ran terrible 40 times. Hard to imagine Lamb running slower than them.

Kupp's 40 was far from spectacular, but he was not expected to be a burner.  He is a good WR because of his route running, cuts and attention to detail.  If anything he is proof that you can't just look at measurements and track drills.

[Chiefer]

36 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I unfortunately do not, and I usually love USC WRs. I see Pittman as depth or a WR4  in a heavy pass offense. 
 

Not impressed with his routes, speed, or separation. While I’ve said I’m concerned about Lambs separation, it pales in comparison to my worry for Pittman. It is not just his route and speed that cause lack of separation, but hips are super stiff (a concern I have about Reagor). I just can’t see him creating much separation at the next level. And while his catch in traffic is amazing, it’s not “wow” enough to be a starting WR imo. 

His size is fantastic and his catch in traffic is pretty good but I’m just not sold on him. I’d say Early 4th Rd Grade. 
 

I’m much higher on Tyler Johnson who is somewhat similar. I’d give Johnson a Early 3rd Round Grade. 

He’s basically a Demarcus Robinson or a Chris Conley type in your eyes. I get the same kinda vibes. I wonder if he can do any special teams work. 
 

I also really like Tyler Johnson.

[BayRaider]

Imagine a QB with all of Josh Allens Pros and all of Josh Allens Cons. Also with all of Derek Carrs Cons and none of his Pros.

You have Justin Herbert.

[HoboRocket]

8 hours ago, offbyone said:

Kupp's 40 was far from spectacular, but he was not expected to be a burner.  He is a good WR because of his route running, cuts and attention to detail.  If anything he is proof that you can't just look at measurements and track drills.

Exactly. Which is why I'm not worried about CeeDee. 40s only really hold the weight that people give them if you're a Will Fuller, DeSean Jackson type of receiver. Last year in the Combine thread someone made fun of me for saying I'd rather have a receiver that excels in the three-cone with a bad 40 on day 2 or 3 than someone who runs a great 40 with a bad three-cone on day 1. I was referring to Hunter Renfrow, specifically, and Kupp was my example. DeAndre Hopkins is another example of someone who's not a burner or a separation monster. Kupp and Renfrow create separation by being WRs with refined route-running and the awareness level of a QB. They had to develop these things to dominate in college because they didn't HAVE the natural athleticism. DeAndre Hopkins is another guy that doesn't really create separation on a go route, but he can break your ankles on a double move (he did it to DeAngelo Hall, Hard Knocks highlight of the universe), he's sudden in and out of breaks, he knows how to use body positioning, he's aggressive after the catch, and he's acrobatic along the sideline, which really adds a few extra yards to the width of the field which defenses have serious trouble accounting for. CeeDee has a lot of those traits, with good length, suddenness, aggression after the catch, and the ability to position his body to box out defenders. He also reminds me of Kupp a bit with his awareness levels and ability to bail out his QB on plays that break down. 

Jeudy should destroy the three-cone, though.

[HoboRocket]

6 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Imagine a QB with all of Josh Allens Pros and all of Josh Allens Cons. Also with all of Derek Carrs Cons and none of his Pros.

You have Justin Herbert.

Hold up hold up. I've watched basically every Oregon game of the past two years. Justin Herbert has consistency issues with his accuracy, but he's not on JOSH ALLEN's level with his accuracy as a prospect. And I'm possibly the biggest Josh Allen fanboy on FF. Either of them. Herbert, as a prospect, MIGHT have the same accuracy levels as year 2 Josh Allen. That's a Josh Allen that's accuracy was dramatically better than year 1. Did he still have accuracy issues? Absolutely. But not nearly as bad as he did during his rookie season. 

I think Justin Herbert is absolutely worth a 1st-round pick, but when you grab him, you grab him knowing that he's a serious project with limitations as a passer right now. Now, as far as the Carr issues go, I think Herbert became more of a checkdown king this year because he'd lost his dynamic deep threat in Dillon Mitchell to early draft declaration and there were some big separation and catching issues with his receiving group.

[BayRaider]

2020 Prospect Rankings 2.0

 

 

 

Generational Prospects:

 

1. QB Joe Burrow - LSU
2. QB Tua Tagovailoa - Alabama
3. EDGE Chase Young - Ohio State

Blue Chip Prospects:

 

4. CB Jeff Okudah - Ohio State
5. EDGE Yetur Gross-Matos - Penn State
6. DT Derrick Brown - Auburn
7. LB Isaiah Simmons - Clemson
8. DT Javon Kinlaw - Auburn
9. OT Andrew Thomas - Georgia
10. WR Jerry Jeudy – Alabama

Upper Tier Prospects:

 

11. OT Jedrick Wills – Alabama
12. OT Mekhi Becton – Louisville
13. WR Henry Ruggs III - Alabama
14. QB Jordan Love - Utah State
15. OT/G Tristan Wirfs - Iowa
16. EDGE A.J. Epeneza – Iowa

Upper Tier Prospects w/ slight risk (minimal):

 

17. WR Brandon Aiyuk - Arizona State
18. S Grant Delpit – LSU
19. DT Ross Blacklock – TCU

1^st Round Grade Prospects: (ends at 32 ironically)

 

20. WR CeeDee Lamb – Oklahoma
21. EDGE Julian Okwara - Notre Dame
22. LB Patrick Queen - LSU
23. RB D'Andre Swift – Georgia
24. WR Justin Jefferson - LSU
25. S Xaiver McKinney – Alabama
26. RB Jonathan Taylor – Wisconsin
27. EDGE K’Lavon Chaisson - LSU
28. QB Jake Fromm – Georgia
29. WR Tee Higgins – Clemson
30. LB Kenneth Murray – Oklahoma
31. CB Kristian Fulton – LSU
32. CB CJ Henderson – Florida

2^nd Round Grade:

 

33. RB J.K. Dobbins – Ohio State
34. CB Trevon Diggs - Alabama
35. CB Damon Arnette – Ohio State
36. DT Neville Gallimore – Oklahoma
37. S Ashtyn Davis – Cal
38. WR KJ Hamler – Penn State
39. CB Jaylon Johnson – Utah
40. QB Jacob Eason - Washington
41. OT Austin Jackson – USC
42. TE Cole Kmet – Notre Dame
43. LB Zach Braun – Wisconsin
44. DT Marlon Davidson - Auburn
45. CB Jeff Gladney – TCU
46. OT Josh Jones - Houston
47. CB Bryce Hall – Virginia
48. QB Justin Herbert – Oregon
49. S Antoine Winfield Jr. - Minnesota
50. WR Denzel Mims - Baylor
     

Notes:

- Final Version. I don't overly care about the combine. I do take in OL/DL Measurments, Bench Reps, WR 40 Time, Vertical, 3 Cone to a certain degree. But I don't care about much else. CB's I care purely about game tape speed.

- Added DT Marlon Davidson, S Antoine Winfield Jr, and WR Denzel Mims.

- Subtracted C Tyler Biadadz (#42), WR Laviska Shenault (#45), and EDGE Terrell Lewis (#50).

- Upped WR CeeDee Lamb, WR Justin Jefferson, DT Neville Gallimore, CB Jaylon Johnson.

- Down are CB CJ Henderson, WR Tee Higgins, WR KJ Hamler, and CB Jeff Gladney.

- Removed OT Jerrick Wills as a Blue Chip Prospect.

Explanations:

- I know a lot of you love Denzel Mims, and I finally got a chance to watch much more of his tape. He's really, really impressive. I'm actually hoping Mims falls to our first 3rd Round Pick. I'm starting to really fall for him. Not to mention he ran a 4.38 today.

- Winfield seems like a gamer just like his father. He's aggressive and I really like his playing style. Not the most athletic guy but Mid 2nd Round Grade seems right for him.

- I was pleasantly surprised with Jefferson and Lambs 40 time. Jefferson now gets a 1st Round Grade from me and I'm higher on Lamb than I was for sure, although you guys love him more than me still. But I still really like Lamb and wouldn't mind him in Silver & Black at all. No complaints from me. Solid Prospect.

- Downgraded CB CJ Henderson 12 entire spots, but still a 1st Round Grade, barely. Watched more of his tape and obviously a lot it concerns me. I think he is undersized, not the greatest in press, and absolutely not a good run defender in any way. He could get bossed around by big WRs, and might not help in run support. He is still excellent in Man and Off Coverage and pretty good in Zone. Fulton is now my CB2 by default.

- Still very high on Aiyuk, 4.50 40 time or not. His change of direction is by far the smoothest and best of this class by far. And best and twitchiest double moves of any WR of recent memory. I feel his game tape speed is much faster than 4.50 as well. I downgraded him down to "With Risk" because 1. He needs to show he can beat press coverage, 2. His 4.50 time is a little concerning, but not very.

- Terrell Lewis has been taken off the list for me after watching more tape. He's more of a Early 3rd Round Prospect for me now. He's more of a blitzer than a pass rusher (yes there's a difference) and still has a lot to learn. He's extremely raw. Needs to add strength, learn pass rush moves, etc.

- Zack Baun is really growing on me, even though he doesn't fit the Raiders. He's a 3-4 OLB. But man... he can do everything and does it well. He can cover, he can blitz outside/inside, he's fast, he's agile, decent size, and he can cover really really well.

- Patrick Queen is growing on me again. Still needs to size up for a 4-3 Mike role, but as a LB in a Nickel Formation, he is going to be a beast. He can cover really well, absolutely tremendous A+ Football IQ and will have no issues wearing that helmet with the microphone, tremendous instincts, great range, and plays with a purpose.

- Jaylon Johnson, after watching more, is really close to Rock Ya-Sin from last year. Not quite as good, but still very similar.

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by BayRaider