Why do the Raiders hate Derek Carr and wish for him to be dead?

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, GordyTheGoffer said:

Ok fella im done here...

What here is inaccurate?

 “In a word, Moreau’s rookie season was efficient. He hauled in 91.3% of his targets (21 of 23), including five scores, and he didn’t drop a single pass on the year. That’s precisely the kind of production you love to see from your No. 2 tight end. He was also PFFs highest graded Rookie TE, above Hockenson.”

Edited February 24, 2020 by BayRaider

[dante9876]

22 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

What here is inaccurate?

 “In a word, Moreau’s rookie season was efficient. He hauled in 91.3% of his targets (21 of 23), including five scores, and he didn’t drop a single pass on the year. That’s precisely the kind of production you love to see from your No. 2 tight end. He was also PFFs highest graded Rookie TE, above Hockenson.”

But he isnt a number 1 wr. So it doesn't count. Why cant you figure that out already. Now it's the coaches fault the cooper didnt shine here. No matter what it's always somebody else's fault. Let's get ready for another make or break year of driving the Carr. 

[BayRaider]

Just now, dante9876 said:

But he isnt a number 1 wr. So it doesn't count. Why cant you figure that out already. Now it's the coaches fault the cooper didnt shine here. No matter what it's always somebody else's fault. Let's get ready for another make or break year of driving the Carr. 

Your first sentence killed me, sounds just like em. 

[Jakuvious]

21 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

What here is inaccurate?

 “In a word, Moreau’s rookie season was efficient. He hauled in 91.3% of his targets (21 of 23), including five scores, and he didn’t drop a single pass on the year. That’s precisely the kind of production you love to see from your No. 2 tight end. He was also PFFs highest graded Rookie TE, above Hockenson.”

He had a great catch rate because his YPC was 8.3 and he was only catching short passes from Carr. The same thing you're criticizing Carr for (high success rate on short passes) is the reason Moreau, to you, is some great asset that represents how great the talent around Carr is.

 

I'm far from what anyone would call a Carr supporter. As a Chiefs fan I see one or two of Carr's worst games of each season every year because he flat out sucks against us, for whatever reason. But you're absolutely overrating the Raiders' overall roster talent in order to put down Carr. Several of your primary criticisms of Carr on page 1 relate to him being too conservative as a passer. Throws short too often, won't throw into tight windows, bad deep accuracy, etc. But then listing the talent the Raiders have, you're praising their TEs, their RB, their rookie slot WR. The talent in that offense is conducive of a conservative short passing game. Williams is the closest thing you have to a deep threat and he wasn't healthy all year, and he's still not a great one. The offensive talent there is built to be a safe, check down offense. Waller, Moreau, Renfrow, and Jacobs is an Alex Smith dream of an offensive roster. So of course Carr is conservative, has a high completion %, but a mediocre yards per completion. That's what that O is built for.

[BayRaider]

@Jakuvious

Carr is a conservative QB at heart. He’s been conservative since college. The only time he wasn’t was in the 4th QTR of 2016.  He has always been a dink and dunk passer, across five coaching staffs (two in college, three in the NFL). 2017 was his worst season and had the worst air yards in the NFL according to NexGen Stats. He had Cooper and Crabtree. So what’s his excuse? I’ve seen every game of this guy, college and NFL. He’s as conservative as they come. Get him some deep threats? He’s not gonna throw deep. He has even said in a post interview “I would never throw deep more than once a game because NFL defenses are too smart for that”. It was a 2018 game, maybe the Niners. 

[dante9876]

12 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

He had a great catch rate because his YPC was 8.3 and he was only catching short passes from Carr. The same thing you're criticizing Carr for (high success rate on short passes) is the reason Moreau, to you, is some great asset that represents how great the talent around Carr is.

 

I'm far from what anyone would call a Carr supporter. As a Chiefs fan I see one or two of Carr's worst games of each season every year because he flat out sucks against us, for whatever reason. But you're absolutely overrating the Raiders' overall roster talent in order to put down Carr. Several of your primary criticisms of Carr on page 1 relate to him being too conservative as a passer. Throws short too often, won't throw into tight windows, bad deep accuracy, etc. But then listing the talent the Raiders have, you're praising their TEs, their RB, their rookie slot WR. The talent in that offense is conducive of a conservative short passing game. Williams is the closest thing you have to a deep threat and he wasn't healthy all year, and he's still not a great one. The offensive talent there is built to be a safe, check down offense. Waller, Moreau, Renfrow, and Jacobs is an Alex Smith dream of an offensive roster. So of course Carr is conservative, has a high completion %, but a mediocre yards per completion. That's what that O is built for.

So the offense is built for our conservative qb. Or is the offense the reason the qb is conservative. What do you think. You seen enough of Carr to know the answer. I know Ty didnt say that's the raiders offense. " He said that is Carr game. We know what he is. "

Edited February 24, 2020 by dante9876

[Soko]

15 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

@Jakuvious

Carr is a conservative QB at heart. He’s been conservative since college. The only time he wasn’t was in the 4th QTR of 2016.  He has always been a dink and dunk passer, across five coaching staffs (two in college, three in the NFL). 2017 was his worst season and had the worst air yards in the NFL according to NexGen Stats. He had Cooper and Crabtree. So what’s his excuse? I’ve seen every game of this guy, college and NFL. He’s as conservative as they come. Get him some deep threats? He’s not gonna throw deep. He has even said in a post interview “I would never throw deep more than once a game because NFL defenses are too smart for that”. It was a 2018 game, maybe the Niners. 

Completely missed the point of his post.

[BayRaider]

6 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Completely missed the point of his post.

He was trying to say Carr is conservative because of the offense which is the farthest thing from the truth there is. 
 

And it’s still an extremely talented offense that he is absurdly nitpicking. It is a Top 2 OL with a Top 2-3 C and best RT. Kolton Miller took leaps and bounds and had a Top 10-12 LT season, while Incognito was a Top 5 Rated Guard in the NFL. I’d only have the Colts better. Waller did have a Top 5 TE season. Jacobs did have a Top 5-8 RB season. Tyrell was fantastic when he played. Renfrow excelled. It had a lot of offensive talent. Excuses have been made for Carr, for three seasons now. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by BayRaider

[Jakuvious]

2 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

So the offense is built for our conservative qb. Or is the offense the reason the qb is conservative. What do you think. You seen enough of Carr to know the answer. I know Ty didnt say that's the raiders offense. He said that is Carr game. We know what he is. 

I think both the offense and the QB are conservative leaning, and that combines to make it even moreso. Carr because I think that's his tendency. I don't think he's Alex Smith bad, but I think he's absolutely the kind of guy who's number 1 priority is not throwing picks and not getting sacked. The offense just because that's the talent that is there, is a run first, short pass second, kind of offensive structure. I think a lot of QBs would actually have produced similarly this year because that's what the talent on the roster is geared towards. I don't think it's an add a QB and then the offense is great kind of situation. I think throwing someone like Brady in, for instance, might improve things a little, but it would still be a very short pass geared offense. I think Brady would arrive and see an offense similar to what he had last year. Trade an upgrade at TE for a much worse defense. Adding a Rivers or Winston or something would give you a guy that would try to chuck it deep, but would just result in a lot of INTs because no one is there to make those plays. I think a more aggressive QB carries a greater increase in negative plays, than in big plays.

I don't think Carr is some great franchise QB, but I do think he is getting scapegoated for some issues inherent to the team, not just the QB. I don't care if you add Aaron Rodgers, you're not dropping bombs to Hunter Renfrow and Keelan Doss. You're not taking an aggressive approach on 3rd and 15 because of how much you trust Foster Moreau and Zay Jones. I do think improvements can be made over Carr (though not cheaply or easily), but if you don't improve at WR you're not getting a high end aggressive offense. If you don't improve on D you're not winning a ton of games. It's just easier to point to one guy.

[BayRaider]

@Jakuvious Please read my write up on Page 1 and debunk any of it. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by BayRaider

[Totty]

29 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

He had a great catch rate because his YPC was 8.3 and he was only catching short passes from Carr. The same thing you're criticizing Carr for (high success rate on short passes) is the reason Moreau, to you, is some great asset that represents how great the talent around Carr is.

 

I'm far from what anyone would call a Carr supporter. As a Chiefs fan I see one or two of Carr's worst games of each season every year because he flat out sucks against us, for whatever reason. But you're absolutely overrating the Raiders' overall roster talent in order to put down Carr. Several of your primary criticisms of Carr on page 1 relate to him being too conservative as a passer. Throws short too often, won't throw into tight windows, bad deep accuracy, etc. But then listing the talent the Raiders have, you're praising their TEs, their RB, their rookie slot WR. The talent in that offense is conducive of a conservative short passing game. Williams is the closest thing you have to a deep threat and he wasn't healthy all year, and he's still not a great one. The offensive talent there is built to be a safe, check down offense. Waller, Moreau, Renfrow, and Jacobs is an Alex Smith dream of an offensive roster. So of course Carr is conservative, has a high completion %, but a mediocre yards per completion. That's what that O is built for.

Spot on.  I will say he has disappointed in some key situations.  Fumbling on the goal line against GB.  Throwing it away on 4th down.  ETC. But all in all, the guy is playing inside the offense he is given.  

[Soko]

7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

He was trying to say Carr is conservative because of the offense which is the farthest thing from the truth there is. 

No. 

He’s saying that offense is built to be conservative. 

7 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

And it’s still an extremely talented offense that he is absurdly nitpicking. It is a Top 2 OL with a Top 2-3 C and best RT. Kolton Miller took leaps and bounds and had a Top 10-12 LT season, while Incognito was a Top 5 Rated Guard in the NFL. I’d only have the Colts better. Waller did have a Top 5 TE season. Jacobs did have a Top 5-8 RB season. Tyrell was fantastic when he played. Renfrow excelled. It had a lot of offensive talent. Excuses have been made for Carr, for three seasons now. 

You can keep throwing this stuff out there, it’s real easy to do out-of-pocket. But your misconstrued view of the Raiders talent, even if true, doesn’t disprove the point others were trying to make - it’s an offense geared towards short and conservative.

Alex Smith being conservative in an Andy Reid offense with Kelce and Hill is one thing. Derek Carr being conservative with a banged up Tyrell Williams and Hunter Renfrow is another.

[BayRaider]

4 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

 

Alex Smith being conservative in an Andy Reid offense with Kelce and Hill is one thing. Derek Carr being conservative with a banged up Tyrell Williams and Hunter Renfrow is another.

No, it’s really not. Just because Carr has an arm, people assume he doesn’t wanna play like Alex Smith which is just downright assuming. Take his arm out of it. That’s not the way he wants to play. He’s been playing conservative since college. He is not comfortable doing otherwise, that’s not his game. 

[bucksavage1]

Pauly Howard on Vsin Vegas XM Radio just said he won't go to a game if Carr is the QB in Vegas. Wont watch 5 yard passes and a QB who throws the ball into the dirt at the 1st sign of pressure

[Soko]

6 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

No, it’s really not. Just because Carr has an arm, people assume he doesn’t wanna play like Alex Smith which is just downright assuming. Take his arm out of it. That’s not the way he wants to play. He’s been playing conservative since college. He is not comfortable doing otherwise, that’s not his game. 

Which I have never disputed. 

But this isn’t the Chiefs offense. It’s not even the Vikings, the Niners, or the Chargers offense. 

Carr is a conservative QB. The Raiders are built to be a running, conservative, move-the-sticks offense. Both of those statements can be true, but you’re too busy conflating what “people” are saying with what’s actually being said right in front of you. 
 

EDIT: And yeah, it is it’s own thing. Carr being conservative in a depthless offense is different than Smith doing it in a loaded offense with the best offensive mind in the league (or amongst the best). 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Yin-Yang