WindyCity Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 21 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Whether it's helped him or not is another topic of discussion. Reality is that NFL GM's do this all the time and we should not be surprised or taken to fully believe anything by what is said at this time of year. And I meant that Pace and Nagy aren't dumb to not realize that the QB play needs to vastly improve. I'm not talking about evaluating QB prospects. Knowing something and doing something about it are not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 4 hours ago, dll2000 said: Your have to think of the mindset of a player looking for a place he can win or get a chance at a starting job. If you are star HS QB you don’t want to go to a school with a star freshman QB. Right now Bears have a starter that is playing poorly that is near end of his contract. There is opportunity there from someone else’s point of view. I totally agree with that. The Mariotas, Daltons and Keenums should be all over our job. I just think those higher on the list than that can and will look for a better situation. Even with potential 2020 availability, is Chicago a better landing spot than QB2 in NO long term for instance? They have all-world skill talent that’s super young, a great offensive mind at HC and don’t have to play in the cold for half their games or more. I’d argue being the heir apparent to Brady may be probably a better gig too because of BB. I’m not saying the others are better options for sure, but they might be depending on the player goals. Dalton for instance has made a crap ton of money - he may be more content to chase a ring even as a backup if it’s for comparable money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: The people who are important know. You aren't keeping much secret from people in the business. Talking to the public is about narrative and PR, so I do not understand why they are not straddling this thing more. I am not sure why anyone would trust Pace when it comes to QB? Nagy I trust to know what QB he needs/wants, but acquiring that QB is an entirely different thing even more so when your GM has heavy ties to a QB already. Again, I am not saying that I trust him on how to evaluate QB talent. I am saying that I trust he knows where the issue lies right now at QB for this team. He's not oblivious to the fact that the QB play from Mitch has been sub par and needs to vastly improve or else. If you think otherwise then you are just being stubborn and hateful towards the guy and are seriously undermining his football intelligence, which is far greater than you or I or anyone in this forum, unless there are secret burner accounts on here that are actually NFL GMs, but who's got time for that? Pace may not be a good QB talent evaluator, but I don't think he would be foolish enough to jeopardize his job over a certain player if it's 100% clear he doesn't have it. Edited February 26, 2020 by topwop1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Here's one other biggie that I don't think has been mentioned yet. How many QBs do we have on the roster right now? One, Mitch. So why should anyone get hung up on Pace saying Mitch is his starter in 2020? Until we sign or draft someone else or two someone else's who else could even be the starter in 2020? Cut to the chase right? Once we've added other QBs and know who they are let's see how that progresses. Pace's support for Mitch isn't a blood oath. He hasn't committed to risking his life making the "unbreakable vow". Today Mitch is his starter. Soon Mitch will have competition from someone with experience starting elsewhere. What Pace says now doesn't mean In September we can't possibly have a new starter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: The people who are important know. You aren't keeping much secret from people in the business. Talking to the public is about narrative and PR, so I do not understand why they are not straddling this thing more. I am not sure why anyone would trust Pace when it comes to QB? Nagy I trust to know what QB he needs/wants, but acquiring that QB is an entirely different thing even more so when your GM has heavy ties to a QB already. Nobody in any line of corporate business (which the NFL is) talks about how they’re exploring replacing their incumbent guy openly because if they try to replace him and fail to do so they still need him to fill the role to the best of his abilities. Anything other than a vote of confidence for Mitch and a backing of Mitch until an actual potential alternative is in place would be a gross dereliction of duty by Pace, so to begrudge that he’s doing what every other NFL GM or corporate middle manager would do in the same spot is pointless. Whether you trust in Pace’s ability to ultimately get the QB position right is a different discussion than whether or not he should have been supporting Mitch during media day while he’s our present QB1. There are only 2 real options here - either replace Mitch outright with a top FA or via trade, or sign/draft a better #2 to compete/push/step in in the case of failure. There isn’t a clear right answer. For purposes of discussion I’m assuming we have no shot at Brady, Brees or Rivers. What’s the worst case scenario for Pace? I’d tier that as follows (worst to best case for Pace): -Move on from Mitch this offseason only to have him excel elsewhere, regardless of what his replacement does -Move on from Mitch this offseason with a perceived qualified QB1, Mitch fails elsewhere and the replacement is also bad -Bring in a subpar #2, Mitch fails and the #2 is bad -Bring in a #2 via a #2 draft pick, Mitch fails and the draft pick is awful -Bring in a higher tier #2, Mitch fails and the higher tier #2 fails -Bring in a higher tier #2, Mitch fails and the backup succeeds to be average as a starter -Mitch is QB1 in 2020 and is an average starter ala 2018 -Bring in a higher tier #2, Mitch fails and the backup is really good as a starter -Bring in a #2 via a #2 draft pick, Mitch fails and the rookie backup is an average starter in 2020 -Move on from Mitch this offseason and the replacement is really good -Bring in a #2 via a #2 draft pick, Mitch fails and the rookie backup is immediately good -Mitch is QB1 in 2020 and takes a significant step forward There are probably others in there but my point is pretty well illustrated. Of all available outcomes, the only one where Mitch is replaced outright as the starter this offseason where Pace isn’t still potentially on the chopping block is if he’s replaced and the QB and the team are correspondingly immediately good. If he’s replaced and we are still a .500 team and the replacement QB then he’s in trouble. If he’s replaced and the QB and team suck then he’s REALLY in trouble. This is why I think Derek Carr isn’t a great choice for Pace. He’s not in that top tier where the move has that “HOLY CRAP THEY GOT DEREK CARR!!” aesthetic, and if Carr leads us to a .500 record and plays to his career averages in 2020 (which themselves are pretty average) then Pace has not only not greatly upgraded the position but also likely locked us into a longer window with a non-elite QB which would leave the team worse off whether he’s here beyond 2020 or not. But, if he brings in a viable alternative level backup for Mitch I think there are far more scenarios where Pace still keeps the job beyond 2020, with only a few where he potentially gets canned. IMO, the best choice for what to do at QB for Pace that let’s him hopefully improve the team but also insulate him from the standpoint of job security is to bring in a non-bum backup in FA. Whether that actually turns out to be what’s best for the team or not would only remain to be seen as time passes, but to expect him to choose any other option than that which both potentially upgrades the spot and insulates him from being fired to the extent possible would be naive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: Nobody in any line of corporate business (which the NFL is) talks about how they’re exploring replacing their incumbent guy openly because if they try to replace him and fail to do so they still need him to fill the role to the best of his abilities. Anything other than a vote of confidence for Mitch and a backing of Mitch until an actual potential alternative is in place would be a gross dereliction of duty by Pace, so to begrudge that he’s doing what every other NFL GM or corporate middle manager would do in the same spot is pointless. Whether you trust in Pace’s ability to ultimately get the QB position right is a different discussion than whether or not he should have been supporting Mitch during media day while he’s our present QB1. Thank you for hammering that point. Pace is committed to Trubisky as the 2020 starter because that is what is guaranteed at this present time. He said he needs to be better. He said he wants competition at all positions on the roster. What more does he need to say to appease people without divulging their true intentions for FA/draft? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbear72 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, topwop1 said: Thank you for hammering that point. Pace is committed to Trubisky as the 2020 starter because that is what is guaranteed at this present time. He said he needs to be better. He said he wants competition at all positions on the roster. What more does he need to say to appease people without divulging their true intentions for FA/draft? This. I have been listening to the radio off and on and following these threads and my mind is completely blown. Fans expected Pace to expose his draft/FA strategy and do damage to our already somewhat fragile QBs psyche so that we can get a warm and fuzzy feeling inside early in the off-season? Should Pace be held accountable for the team? Yes. Should he make every effort to find ways to improve the position? Yes. Should he expose his plan for the rest of the NFL to strategize against? HELL NO! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) Funny stories from a whole different world. In the last America's Cup (sailing) the New Zealand team had figured out that the usual arm powered winches all the teams had been using were WAY less efficient than mounting a bicycle style "grinder" to power the winches and hydraulics on their boat. So they ripped out the arm powered winches, and plugged in the funny bike powered gear. BUT, they didn't want anyone else catching on, and there was a team weight limit, AND they had to get their guys in shape for bikes and not massive arms. So for a long time before the racing started, all their usual grinders-who were losing mass in their torso and getting tree-trunk legs-started wearing padded shirts everywhere just so they wouldn't look out of place. This competition has spyies EVERYWHERE so hiding little details is huge. They also had two test boats that would go out, and once they came up with how to make them hydrofoil, that hydrofoiling test boat would always conveniently break down on the way out to testing and get towed "home". All the spys would follow the decoy boat, while they'd tow the fast foiing boat aroudn an island and test in peace, going 40% faster than the others. Subterfuge is a fun part of that scene, and there's all kinds of stories about fake boats and stranding other teams spys in airports. Weird world. Edited February 26, 2020 by RunningVaccs 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOGRIESE Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, topwop1 said: Thank you for hammering that point. Pace is committed to Trubisky as the 2020 starter because that is what is guaranteed at this present time. He said he needs to be better. He said he wants competition at all positions on the roster. What more does he need to say to appease people without divulging their true intentions for FA/draft? He would have to for Windy and that's the problem. It would be stupid for him to. Pace has been tight lipped since we hired him. That's just the way it is and I'm in full support with it. I'm going to wait to see what he does in a few weeks before getting pissed. On the other hand I always think Nagy is a little more candid when talking about Mitch than Pace is. Nagy will always tell you the issues he needs to iron out and I suspect if he doesn't improve in training camp Nagy will be a little more vocal too. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 26, 2020 Author Share Posted February 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, GOGRIESE said: He would have to for Windy and that's the problem. It would be stupid for him to. Pace has been tight lipped since we hired him. That's just the way it is and I'm in full support with it. I'm going to wait to see what he does in a few weeks before getting pissed. On the other hand I always think Nagy is a little more candid when talking about Mitch than Pace is. Nagy will always tell you the issues he needs to iron out and I suspect if he doesn't improve in training camp Nagy will be a little more vocal too. Do not need him to bash Trubisky. I expected him to be a little more lukewarm in his support and praise. There is no need to deflect, globalize, and make an asinine statement about accuracy and processing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Just now, WindyCity said: Do not need him to bash Trubisky. I expected him to be a little more lukewarm in his support and praise. There is no need to deflect, globalize, and make an asinine statement about accuracy and processing. That was really funny actually. Perhaps he hasn't updated his notes since UNC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardown3231 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 3 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I totally agree with that. The Mariotas, Daltons and Keenums should be all over our job. I just think those higher on the list than that can and will look for a better situation. Even with potential 2020 availability, is Chicago a better landing spot than QB2 in NO long term for instance? They have all-world skill talent that’s super young, a great offensive mind at HC and don’t have to play in the cold for half their games or more. I’d argue being the heir apparent to Brady may be probably a better gig too because of BB. I’m not saying the others are better options for sure, but they might be depending on the player goals. Dalton for instance has made a crap ton of money - he may be more content to chase a ring even as a backup if it’s for comparable money. I'm sure this will come off as nitpicky, but the Bears do not play in the "cold for half of their games or more." Come on now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I think most fans' disappointment comes not from what Pace publicly says about Mitch, but from the feeling that he actually believes it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 22 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: I think most fans' disappointment comes not from what Pace publicly says about Mitch, but from the feeling that he actually believes it. That's pure conjecture. We do not know how Pace truly feels deep down inside. Like GoGriese said above, Pace has had a tendency to hide his true feelings when talking publicly ever since he took this role. That's how he operates so I wouldn't read too much into what he says. Remember what he said about Mike Glennon too when they signed him and he was benched only 4 games into his contract and never to be seen again? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topwop1 Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 2 hours ago, WindyCity said: Do not need him to bash Trubisky. I expected him to be a little more lukewarm in his support and praise. There is no need to deflect, globalize, and make an asinine statement about accuracy and processing. You don't even like Pace anyway so why do you even care what he has to say at this point? Actions will speak louder than words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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