Bears Appear To Be Set On Keeping Floyd

[soulman]

It doesn’t sound like Bears are moving on from Leonard Floyd by Alyssa Barbieri https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/26/chicago-bears-general-manager-ryan-pace-confident-outside-linebacker-leonard-floyd-will-be-more-productive/

Outside of quarterback Mitchell Trubisky, one of the most controversial players on the Bears is outside linebacker Leonard Floyd.

Floyd, who is entering his fifth season, hasn't exactly lived up to his potential as a former No. 9 overall pick. While the Bears pass rush as a whole suffered in 2019, Floyd was especially underwhelming.

While Floyd had a career-high 12 quarterback hits, he had a career-low three sacks last season. In fact, every season his sack total has decreased since entering the league in 2016.

When Bears general manager Ryan Pace met with the media at the NFL Scouting Combine, he reaffirmed his faith in Floyd. Pace acknowledged that Floyd needs to be more productive as a pass rusher. But he also sounded like someone that remains all-in on Floyd.

"I think Leonard wants to be more productive as a pass rusher," Pace said. "We want him to be more productive there too. He's close in a lot of areas when you look at the pressures and those things. He just needs to finish a little better on the quarterback. But I think when you're evaluating him, you have to factor in everything. His run defense. His ability in coverage.

"We consider him our 'Sam' outside linebacker, so we value what he can do in coverage and think sometimes that goes a little underrated for what he does in that area, for a guy that's of his stature. Not many outside linebackers can drop in coverage like he does. So, that's a factor."

That sounds like the declaration of a general manager that's not willing to move on from Floyd just yet. But knowing Pace, that's not really a surprise. Moving on from Floyd -- or even Trubisky -- would be admitting failure.

While Floyd's ability in coverage is something that separates him from other outside linebackers, ultimately he needs to be more productive opposite Khalil Mack, which in itself affords Floyd more opportunities to close on the quarterback.

But is Floyd's potential enough to justify his $13.2 million salary in 2020? I guess we'll see. The Bears still have until March 18 to decide what to do with Floyd. But it sounds like Floyd will remain with the Bears -- at least for one more year.

[soulman]

Going back to his being drafted I was among those opposed to it if only because few if any SEC "Tweener" types which Floyd certainly was ever succeed as top NFL pass rushers.  Many have failed at it.  In addition Floyd was never a very productive pass rusher even in college and spent almost as much time playing ILB and in coverage so I'm not sure why we ever expected him to become a double digit sack artist other than what may have been based upon Pace's hopes and plans for him.

So, he's not another Kahlil Mack and never will be but he is a decent OLB and a fairly well rounded player overall and if he could have turned a few more of those 12 hits into sacks we'd be less likely to have any doubts about keeping him onboard.  What I'm wondering is why he can't seem to do that.  I can think of maybe a half dozen or more near misses that IMHO should have been sacks.  So maybe he's closer than we think and he may finally end up scoring more than missing in 2020.

But it's kinda tough to believe Pace isn't thinking of offering an extension that would lower his cap costs.  I don't see much risk in that provided the guaranteed $$$ isn't all that much greater than his 2020 option salary.  IMHO it does make some sense to extend him.

Edited February 27, 2020 by soulman

[WindyCity]

Got to extend him and lower the cap hit then. 13 million is idiotic.

[G08]

44 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Got to extend him and lower the cap hit then. 13 million is idiotic.

Agreed. As Ernie from Sesame Street once famously sang: "One of these things is not like the other one, one of these things just doesn't belong."

Khalil Mack - $23.5M

Von Miller - $19.1M

Za'Darius Smith - $16.5M

Chandler Jones - $16.5M

Jadeveon Clowney - $15.M

Leonard Floyd - $13.2M

[soulman]

33 minutes ago, G08 said:

Agreed. As Ernie from Sesame Street once famously sang: "One of these things is not like the other one, one of these things just doesn't belong."

Khalil Mack - $23.5M

Von Miller - $19.1M

Za'Darius Smith - $16.5M

Chandler Jones - $16.5M

Jadeveon Clowney - $15.M

Leonard Floyd - $13.2M

Pace designates him as an "SAM" OLB.  He lacks the number of sacks to make him a top ten player at that spot so if we look at those ranking from 10-20 in gtd $$$ it ranges from $20 mil to around $10 mil.  Floyd's rookie deal gtd $15.3 mil and change.

I would think that a similar amount guaranteed via a signing bonus and salary guarantees or a roster bonus for two years on a four year deal might be about where he fits.   Maybe the best comp out there is the deal GB gave Preston Smith last year.  He got a $16 mil gtd on a 4 year deal 100% covered upfront by his SB.  His 2019 cap hit was just $6 mil.  A non-guaranteed $4.5 roster bonus in year 2 pushes his cap hit up to $13.5 mil in 2020 and then to the $16-$16.5 mil in years 3 and 4 which he may or may not see or at least not year 4.

If via a SB and salary/roster bonus Floyd got $16 mil upfront or say within two years would a deal around $10 mil AAV be enticing?  Or do we need to bring it down more in the $8 mil AAV range so say a 4yr/$32 mil w/$16 mil gtd?  We know Pace values him the question is when you put a pencil to it how much $$$$ does he value him?  $13.2 mil for one year seems a bit high to me.

[Heinz D.]

There are no "Sam" linebackers in a 3-4 defense. Pace can go **** himself...that's maybe the dumbest thing he's ever said. Even better, it's in defense of an ultimately indefensible position. 

8 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Got to extend him and lower the cap hit then. 13 million is idiotic.

That's simply has to be what happens if Floyd sticks around. 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

There are no "Sam" linebackers in a 3-4 defense. Pace can go **** himself...that's maybe the dumbest thing he's ever said. Even better, it's in defense of an ultimately indefensible position. 

That's simply has to be what happens if Floyd sticks around. 

Who ever said there's no strong side OLB in a 3-4?  There's a weak side OLB, a strong side OLB, and two ILBs a Mike and Jack or whatever terminology that defense uses.  Floyd's assignments on runs and when he drops in coverage aren't any different than a 4-3 SAM.

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

Who ever said there's no strong side OLB in a 3-4?  There's a weak side OLB, a strong side OLB, and two ILBs a Mike and Jack or whatever terminology that defense uses.  Floyd's assignments on runs and when he drops in coverage aren't any different than a 4-3 SAM.

The OLBs in a 3-4 are like defensive ends in a 4-3, with some differences, sure, but there is no 3-4 "Sam". Floyd's assignments, IF they truly are the same as a 4-3 outside backer, mean the Bears defense is fundamentally flawed. 3-4 defenses don't rely on their linemen for pass rush. If they get any there--it's a bonus.

I'll be so happy when the Bears finally jettison the 3-4, I can't even begin to put it into words.  

[soulman]

25 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

The OLBs in a 3-4 are like defensive ends in a 4-3, with some differences, sure, but there is no 3-4 "Sam". Floyd's assignments, IF they truly are the same as a 4-3 outside backer, mean the Bears defense is fundamentally flawed. 3-4 defenses don't rely on their linemen for pass rush. If they get any there--it's a bonus.

I'll be so happy when the Bears finally jettison the 3-4, I can't even begin to put it into words.  

But that's simply not true Heinz.  There are plays in which Floyd is playing just like a SAM OLB would play especially when dropping in coverage.  On most plays Floyd is playing out of a two point stance as an OLB not in a three point stance like a DE.

The Bears don't always play a pure 3-4 scheme.  They play a lot of hybrid stuff with different fronts in some of which Hicks is playing more like a penetrating DT and pass rusher and in others more like a 5 tech DE.  It really doesn't matter what label Pace chooses to use for him he's listed as and paid as an OLB and he typically plays the strong side of the offensive formation where a SAM OLB plays.

[Damikeeeee]

It's still possible. I have faith 

[Heinz D.]

58 minutes ago, soulman said:

But that's simply not true Heinz.  There are plays in which Floyd is playing just like a SAM OLB would play especially when dropping in coverage.  On most plays Floyd is playing out of a two point stance as an OLB not in a three point stance like a DE.

The Bears don't always play a pure 3-4 scheme.  They play a lot of hybrid stuff with different fronts in some of which Hicks is playing more like a penetrating DT and pass rusher and in others more like a 5 tech DE.  It really doesn't matter what label Pace chooses to use for him he's listed as and paid as an OLB and he typically plays the strong side of the offensive formation where a SAM OLB plays.

Yeah, it is.

Wherever Hicks ends up lining up, or whatever stance Floyd is in--the Bears defense is constructed, basically, like most 3-4 defenses. That means the linemen fill the gaps, hold, and smash the line. They are not, primarily, pass rushers, like...ever. 

If they had different personnel, and played them in different ways, then you'd be absolutely, 100% correct. If they had a unicorn 3-4 DE like J.J. Watt or Bruce Smith--then they'd be far more flexible, and you'd be sort of right in your assessment.

But they don't. They do play hybrid stuff, sort of, you're absolutely right in stating that. But in those circumstances, when Floyd flashes in coverage, a lot of times that means they really only have one pass rusher. And that doesn't work. At all. 

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

But in those circumstances, when Floyd flashes in coverage, a lot of times that means they really only have one pass rusher. And that doesn't work. At all. 

I think it’s an overstatement given the success of our defense the past 2 years to say it doesn’t work at all, but I would 100% agree with the thought that it would work better if Floyd were good at rushing the passer and not as much in coverage. 

[soulman]

10 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Wherever Hicks ends up lining up, or whatever stance Floyd is in--the Bears defense is constructed, basically, like most 3-4 defenses. That means the linemen fill the gaps, hold, and smash the line. They are not, primarily, pass rushers, like...ever.

Then explain how in 2018 Hicks had the second most sacks on the team and Williams the same in 2019 both playing at the same position in which they can often be used more like a 3 tech DT than a 5 tech DE?  So....primary pass rushers?  No  But significant pass rushers? Yes.  We are not always playing a pure 3-4 Heinz.  I've seen us using anywhere from 4 to just 2 down DL.  Most 3-4 teams do this as well.

We're not gonna agree on this so I yield to Ryan Pace's way of describing Leonard Floyd.  He did not call him an Edge Rusher since those are often more DE types (like Pernell McPhee) or pass rush specialists who are not every down players (like Vic Beasley).  Pace sees him as a more versatile OLB and the term "SAM" only tends to designate that he typically lines up on the strong side of the offensive formation.

[dll2000]

Well sometimes Bears drop the OLBs and sometimes they rush them and sometimes they play an anchor technique holding their ground at point of attack and sometimes they are playing like an off ball scraping LB.  Sometimes that is all simply dictated by OT or what RB does or sometimes the formation.  

I think it is obvious by now that Floyd is good at coverage and the run, pretty good at stunts  and bad at straight pass rushing.   
 
The pass rushing is the skill you pay for in a 3-4 because they are the players in space.  Harder to just destroy or blow by a guy or two guys from 1 or 3 tech and get pressure.  Although Daniels and Long made it look pretty easy a lot early in season.  

Part of the appeal of the 3-4 is you could have these hybrid guys and blitz more and drop the ‘rushers’.  So playin oline was trickier.  But seems less people are being tricked. Aside from Bears oline.  

[dll2000]

6 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

I think it is obvious by now that Floyd is good at coverage and the run, pretty good at stunts  and bad at straight pass rushing.   

Exactly my college scouting report on him.  Sometimes you hope you are wrong.