Skins212689 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Not the point of this. Redskins also had the day where Dunbar played next year and their was growing tension between them and with the team (especially under new leadership) trying to put their own stamp on the team they're not likely going to want these off field antics. No one's saying give him for pennies on the dollar. But given the market for players age 30 or older, a 3rd/4th isn't giving him for pennies. You can keep bringing up being the blindsided for Brady all you want but they still aren't viewed any higher than a pass rusher (probably even lesser), which both Campbell and Casey provide. So acting like comparing what they got and what you guys could get for Trent is so off base is a stretch. He is a better overall player than either at this stage, hence why he'd bring more. Once again Dunbar doesn't protect the QB or never has been considered to be a top CB. The most important positions in the NFL QB, Protector of the QB, The Guy tryna Destroy the QB. Trent Protects the QB and is one of the best at doing it. Edited March 26, 2020 by Skins212689 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: You have a truck, you haven't driven for a year but has been very reliable for you previously, that you value at $10,000. I offer you $2,000 for it. You just gunna accept that because, hey "it's better than nothing". I proceed to tell you how you over value you your truck and that you couldn't possibly get the return you are expecting. Yet you hold on to your truck, why? Because you know its value. When someone the time comes for someone who really needs a truck, you can reopen talks. That truck doesn't have to leave your garage until you feel you are being compensated fairly for it. Make sense? Except other people know the history behind your truck. They know it's barely spent an entire year on the road without being in the shop. They know that they are going to have to sink a lot of money into this truck to get it to work for them. Also, the age of the truck comes into play, and the older the truck, the less value you are going to get in return. Oh yeah, and for whatever reason, the truck is refusing to work for you right now. So they have their own negotiating points to consider as well. But a third round pick for an aging tackle with all of the issues Trent has, is not a bad deal, given trade values in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Except other people know the history behind your truck. They know it's barely spent an entire year on the road without being in the shop. They know that they are going to have to sink a lot of money into this truck to get it to work for them. Also, the age of the truck comes into play, and the older the truck, the less value you are going to get in return. Oh yeah, and for whatever reason, the truck is refusing to work for you right now. So they have their own negotiating points to consider as well. But a third round pick for an aging tackle with all of the issues Trent has, is not a bad deal, given trade values in the NFL. Agreed on all you've posted. Especially the bolded. But if we're not getting a 3rd/4th (with a player) then I'm not selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 23 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Just going to have to agree to disagree then. I've read up on it plenty. Yan got offered $19M a year last off-season which is looking to be right around his value, yet I still feel he was wronged based on what the team told him/how they negotiated. Basically, here's the short story. Trent is pissed because the medical staff misdiagnosed his tumor. For years they told him to get a second opinion and he didn't. Also, and this is my personal opinion here, Williams relied on orthopedic doctors to diagnose something that isn't their specialty. They should have referred him to an oncologist, but they didn't. That's absolutely on Inova, but they also told Trent to get a second opinion, so both parties share a degree of the blame for that. He said he wouldn't return unless there were changes that happened, starting with Bruce Allen and the medical staff. So Snyder fired Allen, and got rid of the training staff, which is where a lot of the fans believe is the beef. But it's not. The Redskins medical team is Inova Health, who are still the team doctors and sponsor the Redskins. The training staff has nothing to do with diagnosing an injury. So with all Trent has said, money shouldn't solve this. It needs to end with the Redskins terminating their agreement with Inova, which hasn't happened. Yet we've been led to believe that a new contract would solve all of this, when based on what Trent said originally, should be solved by the Redskins terminating their relationship with Inova Health. There are a lot of things that don't add up, and instead of connecting the dots, Trent and his agent are spreading them further, adding new ones, and not doing anything except painting him in a worse light. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 22 minutes ago, .Buzz said: Just going to have to agree to disagree then. I've read up on it plenty. Yan got offered $19M a year last off-season which is looking to be right around his value, yet I still feel he was wronged based on what the team told him/how they negotiated. So have I. Been following it since Day One. If I can get a 2nd opinion early on for a cyst on my scalp (saving my life), Trent (with many more millions than me) could've as well. I agree with you on how they screwed your guy though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Thaiphoon said: Agreed on all you've posted. Especially the bolded. But if we're not getting a 3rd/4th (with a player) then I'm not selling. You won't, but what if that's the only offer. Also, you are not Ron Rivera, who wants to start this culture here and have everyone buy in. Having Trent with the team past the draft makes no sense at all. They need to take the best offer at the draft and be done with this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: Except other people know the history behind your truck. They know it's barely spent an entire year on the road without being in the shop. They know that they are going to have to sink a lot of money into this truck to get it to work for them. Also, the age of the truck comes into play, and the older the truck, the less value you are going to get in return. Oh yeah, and for whatever reason, the truck is refusing to work for you right now. So they have their own negotiating points to consider as well. But a third round pick for an aging tackle with all of the issues Trent has, is not a bad deal, given trade values in the NFL. Absolutely. The person that buys that truck will have to take all those things into consideration, but ultimately (I believe) someone's going to know that the benefit they get from that truck for the next 2-5 years is worth the risk. I can't take anything away from Trent. When healthy, he is a top 5 LT in the NFL. He absolutely looks to be in good shape. He has been very athletic for a guy his size and plays through pain a lot. He wants to play somewhere else (and get paid more), so now isnt the time to get sentimental about trading away "our LT". Get top dollar for him and send him on his way. You don't get that price, hold on to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: You won't, but what if that's the only offer. Also, you are not Ron Rivera, who wants to start this culture here and have everyone buy in. Having Trent with the team past the draft makes no sense at all. They need to take the best offer at the draft and be done with this. I get that (culture overhaul). But I also understand making him come back and trading him in the season (or TC). You also can't overhaul the culture if you teach the players that all they have to do is bash the org and they will get what they want ($$ or trade) and the team will take it in the shorts. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said: You won't, but what if that's the only offer. Also, you are not Ron Rivera, who wants to start this culture here and have everyone buy in. Having Trent with the team past the draft makes no sense at all. They need to take the best offer at the draft and be done with this. A culture overhaul doesn’t mean you just give players away. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Absolutely. The person that buys that truck will have to take all those things into consideration, but ultimately (I believe) someone's going to know that the benefit they get from that truck for the next 2-5 years is worth the risk. I can't take anything away from Trent. When healthy, he is a top 5 LT in the NFL. He absolutely looks to be in good shape. He has been very athletic for a guy his size and plays through pain a lot. He wants to play somewhere else (and get paid more), so now isnt the time to get sentimental about trading away "our LT". Get top dollar for him and send him on his way. You don't get that price, hold on to him. Most of the top left tackles play until their mid 30's. At least guys from the last generation who I would consider peers of Trent Williams. So in all likelihood, it's 2-4 years of him playing, and after a year off, will it continue to be at a high level? When does decline set in? With his outrageous contract demands, the team signing him is going to be paying him a lot of money during the downside of his career. It's a lot of risk to trade for him right now, and no one really knows how much longer- or how much- is in the tank. Additionally, as I've said in the Dunbar thread, I agree with holding onto the guys in any situation but the one we are in with Ron Rivera right now, needing to start over with the culture and wanting guys in house who are committed to playing. That's the lense that we need to be looking through as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Trent Williams has total control over this situation. If he desperately wants to be out of a Redskins uniform, then he has to accept less pay. The less he accepts, the higher the compensation we will get for a trade. He also has the option of making nice with the staff and staying on, possible getting a reasonable 1 year extension. The problem is Williams doesn't seem to accept reality. He thinks he is worth more than he is. He has felt this way for a year now. He needs to wake up. Personally, I am happy to take two 2020 3rd round picks. That is the lowest offer I would accept. If we can't get it, I say make him play or make him inactive and try to trade him before deadline to a team who gets desperate after an early season injury. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naptownskinsfan Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: I get that (culture overhaul). But I also understand making him come back and trading him in the season (or TC). You also can't overhaul the culture if you teach the players that all they have to do is bash the org and they will get what they want ($$ or trade) and the team will take it in the shorts. On the same token, these were issues- at least with Williams- caused by the previous regime. I've thought that someone should've followed up with Dunbar before he came out to the media frustrated with his contract, especially with how much time Rivera said to have put into evaluating the Redskins, and how quickly his coaching staff came together. If the market is offering something, you have to realize that at some point that's the best you are going to get, and take the best offer. It's not giving away a player if that's what the other teams are offering. Especially when you have everything that goes into this negotiation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said: Except other people know the history behind your truck. They know it's barely spent an entire year on the road without being in the shop. They know that they are going to have to sink a lot of money into this truck to get it to work for them. Also, the age of the truck comes into play, and the older the truck, the less value you are going to get in return. Oh yeah, and for whatever reason, the truck is refusing to work for you right now. So they have their own negotiating points to consider as well. But a third round pick for an aging tackle with all of the issues Trent has, is not a bad deal, given trade values in the NFL. This is true, especially considering w/ what Keim reported today w/ the Redskins only getting a 5th round comp pick - which is basically a 6th round pick bc it will be after all the others teams 5th round picks have been selected. A 3rd is definitely something they should accept. A 3rd or 4th even as Thai said and no, I’m not happy about that at all, but it is what it is. But, at this time you don’t make that deal, you wait it out to see if somehow the rest of this offseason and before the 2020 trade deadline you can get a better deal. If you can’t get a better deal in September of this year and the relationship between the two sides hasn’t improved - and I don’t see how it will be - then, and only then would you unload Trent for a 4th to an OT hungry team. At this point though, there’s no need to unload Trent for that low of compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said: I get that (culture overhaul). But I also understand making him come back and trading him in the season (or TC). You also can't overhaul the culture if you teach the players that all they have to do is bash the org and they will get what they want ($$ or trade) and the team will take it in the shorts. See Quinton Dunbar. Hasn’t the precedent already been set w/ him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtle28 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 58 minutes ago, offbyone said: Trent Williams has total control over this situation. If he desperately wants to be out of a Redskins uniform, then he has to accept less pay. The less he accepts, the higher the compensation we will get for a trade. He also has the option of making nice with the staff and staying on, possible getting a reasonable 1 year extension. The problem is Williams doesn't seem to accept reality. He thinks he is worth more than he is. He has felt this way for a year now. He needs to wake up. Personally, I am happy to take two 2020 3rd round picks. That is the lowest offer I would accept. If we can't get it, I say make him play or make him inactive and try to trade him before deadline to a team who gets desperate after an early season injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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