Williams Asks for Extension or Trade

[e16bball]

1 hour ago, Thaiphoon said:

I get that (culture overhaul). But I also understand making him come back and trading him in the season (or TC). You also can't overhaul the culture if you teach the players that all they have to do is bash the org and they will get what they want ($$ or trade) and the team will take it in the shorts.

You said it, and said it perfectly, Thai. 

There’s more to “establishing culture” than just making sure that everyone on the roster is super happy and grinning rainbows about the chance to wake up and be a Redskin everyday. You can’t just cut everyone loose who is momentarily (or longer-term) frustrated with the organization. 

The culture that needs to be established is one where players can come to the team, the team will listen and respect the player’s position, the team will explain their position, and the two sides will work together to find a way to make it work. Here. On the field. For us. You need to set expectations, and you need to set boundaries.

It needs to be understood that when you sign a contract, the team is committing to you — and you are committing to the team. You’re taking the Redskins’ money (especially in up-front signing bonus and other guarantees) and you’re agreeing that you’ll play for us for the life of that contract. And that needs to be the expectation and understanding, from day one and by everyone. There will be no “public demands” when you’re unhappy. Don’t like that they acquired a player at your position? Upset that you got benched? Sad because they fired your position coach? Frustrated with losing? Worried about no guaranteed money on your contract? Let’s talk about it behind closed doors. And then when we’ve talked about it, shut up and play. That’s how we handle things here. And if you try to buck that system, not only will you not get what you want — things will get worse for you. 

They already gave in to Dunbar, which was weak and unnecessary. But Trent has held their nuts to the fire too long, and too publicly, to deal him for anything other than a “very good” return. If he gets what he wants, and the Redskins are again the ones eating the crap sandwich (as they were with Dunbar), they’ll never have leverage in one of these situations again. They’ll be the team that negotiates with terrorists. And loses.

If I’m not getting top of the 3rd value for a Trent, I’m not trading. He can come play, sit out, retire — I don’t really care. He’s not getting what he wants. Keeping the hard line and making an example for the future is more important to me than some crummy 4th round pick. 

Edited March 26, 2020 by e16bball

[Thaiphoon]

30 minutes ago, e16bball said:

You said it, and said it perfectly, Thai. 

There’s more to “establishing culture” than just making sure that everyone on the roster is super happy and grinning rainbows about the chance to wake up and be a Redskin everyday. You can’t just cut everyone loose who is momentarily (or longer-term) frustrated with the organization. 

The culture that needs to be established is one where players can come to the team, the team will listen and respect the player’s position, the team will explain their position, and the two sides will work together to find a way to make it work. Here. On the field. For us. You need to set expectations, and you need to set boundaries.

It needs to be understood that when you sign a contract, the team is committing to you — and you are committing to the team. You’re taking the Redskins’ money (especially in up-front signing bonus and other guarantees) and you’re agreeing that you’ll play for us for the life of that contract. And that needs to be the expectation and understanding, from day one and by everyone. There will be no “public demands” when you’re unhappy. Don’t like that they acquired a player at your position? Upset that you got benched? Sad because they fired your position coach? Frustrated with losing? Worried about no guaranteed money on your contract? Let’s talk about it behind closed doors. And then when we’ve talked about it, shut up and play. That’s how we handle things here. And if you try to buck that system, not only will you not get what you want — things will get worse for you. 

They already gave in to Dunbar, which was weak and unnecessary. But Trent has held their nuts to the fire too long, and too publicly, to deal him for anything other than a “very good” return. If he gets what he wants, and the Redskins are again the ones eating the crap sandwich (as they were with Dunbar), they’ll never have leverage in one of these situations again. They’ll be the team that negotiates with terrorists. And loses.

If I’m not getting top of the 3rd value for a Trent, I’m not trading. He can come play, sit out, retire — I don’t really care. He’s not getting what he wants. Keeping the hard line and making an example for the future is more important to me than some crummy 4th round pick. 

As someone who has had to go into (multiple) organizations and turn them around (changing the culture each time), this is completely on point. Thank you!

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Basically, here's the short story.  Trent is pissed because the medical staff misdiagnosed his tumor.  For years they told him to get a second opinion and he didn't.  Also, and this is my personal opinion here, Williams relied on orthopedic doctors to diagnose something that isn't their specialty.  They should have referred him to an oncologist, but they didn't.  That's absolutely on Inova, but they also told Trent to get a second opinion, so both parties share a degree of the blame for that.  He said he wouldn't return unless there were changes that happened, starting with Bruce Allen and the medical staff.  

So Snyder fired Allen, and got rid of the training staff, which is where a lot of the fans believe is the beef.  But it's not.  The Redskins medical team is Inova Health, who are still the team doctors and sponsor the Redskins. The training staff has nothing to do with diagnosing an injury.  So with all Trent has said, money shouldn't solve this.  It needs to end with the Redskins terminating their agreement with Inova, which hasn't happened.  Yet we've been led to believe that a new contract would solve all of this, when based on what Trent said originally, should be solved by the Redskins terminating their relationship with Inova Health.  

There are a lot of things that don't add up, and instead of connecting the dots, Trent and his agent are spreading them further, adding new ones, and not doing anything except painting him in a worse light.  

YESSS!!!!

 

 

And this leaves out that Trent's agent said one strategy he knew to get the organization to trade a player is to bash them. Hence his strategy from the beginning

[lavar703]

I just don’t want to see what happened with Dunbar happen with Williams. We absolutely gave our best corner away for nothing. We will almost certainly lose that trade and we made the team much weaker all in the name of culture. You can give me crap about being worried where this regime is headed and say I gave them no time but nothing they’ve done so far has shown they know what they’re doing. 

[turtle28]

Let’s see where the current regime is at in 3 years.

[Thaiphoon]

3 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

I just don’t want to see what happened with Dunbar happen with Williams. We absolutely gave our best corner away for nothing. We will almost certainly lose that trade and we made the team much weaker all in the name of culture. You can give me crap about being worried where this regime is headed and say I gave them no time but nothing they’ve done so far has shown they know what they’re doing. 

Completely reasonable fear here. And I'm with @e16bball in saying I'll accept nothing (via no trade) rather than less than a 3rd (value - so it could be a 4th and another player - hopefully a starter). We need to be changing the culture n a positive way, but also letting the players know that they don't run the organization.

In my current stint, for one of the contracts I manage, I joke that I've had to "beat the xxxx out of them" (where xxxx was the former company and we took over their employees). They had gotten too used to doing things the way they used to be handled. Which is why they were unsuccessful and my company took over and I was placed in charge of the transformation. This meant jettisoning some of the people who I could afford to, and telling some of the others to shape up. Most times it involves the carrot approach. But the stick absolutely works.

[MKnight82]

5 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

I just don’t want to see what happened with Dunbar happen with Williams. We absolutely gave our best corner away for nothing. We will almost certainly lose that trade and we made the team much weaker all in the name of culture. You can give me crap about being worried where this regime is headed and say I gave them no time but nothing they’ve done so far has shown they know what they’re doing. 

Ya I’m with you.  I’m perfectly fine just holding on to him.  I’m not trading a pro bowl LT for a 5th, he can sit out all year I don’t care I’m still not doing it.  We’re going to get better offers once people miss out on their target in the draft or someone gets hurt in camp.  

[MKnight82]

I think one thing people aren’t talking about is that with the virus stuff trent probably can’t go take a physical with any potential trade partner right now.  So that could also be torpedoing his value right now.

[Thaiphoon]

4 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I think one thing people aren’t talking about is that with the virus stuff trent probably can’t go take a physical with any potential trade partner right now.  So that could also be torpedoing his value right now.

Good point

[Slappy Mc]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

I just don’t want to see what happened with Dunbar happen with Williams. We absolutely gave our best corner away for nothing. We will almost certainly lose that trade and we made the team much weaker all in the name of culture. You can give me crap about being worried where this regime is headed and say I gave them no time but nothing they’ve done so far has shown they know what they’re doing. 

Our "best corner" still wasn't that good.

We haven't had a true #1 CB since D-Hall was here. Even D-Hall wasn't the greatest here.

[Skins212689]

20 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Our "best corner" still wasn't that good.

We haven't had a true #1 CB since D-Hall was here. Even D-Hall wasn't the greatest here.

I would disagree Dunbar wasn't good. He's capable of making legit #1 WR work throughout a game. Has Pro Bowl top 100 potential when healthy. 

[candyman93]

5 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

This is the freaking redskins forum.  Explain to me why you are here being a **** about this.  

Because nobody wants him in the Browns forum.

 

He’s obsessed with trading OBJ.

[naptownskinsfan]

34 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Our "best corner" still wasn't that good.

We haven't had a true #1 CB since D-Hall was here. Even D-Hall wasn't the greatest here.

I'd say you have to go back to the early 2000's to Bailey or Springs.  Hall was good, but he wasn't great.  

So yeah, we have a tendency to overrate our good players, because we have had a lack of them during Snyder's tenure.  

[Slappy Mc]

15 minutes ago, Skins212689 said:

I would disagree Dunbar wasn't good. He's capable of making legit #1 WR work throughout a game. Has Pro Bowl top 100 potential when healthy. 

He looks great at times, like really, really good and he also looks really bad at times.

I think he easily was our best CB on our roster, but like I said, that isn't saying much. He should do well in Seattle, I'm glad we didn't break the bank for him, but I do feel he deserved a raise.

And I didn't say he wasn't a good CB. I said he wasn't "that good", as in the big-time cover corner he is being built up to be.

[Slappy Mc]

9 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I'd say you have to go back to the early 2000's to Bailey or Springs.  Hall was good, but he wasn't great.  

So yeah, we have a tendency to overrate our good players, because we have had a lack of them during Snyder's tenure.  

Bailey was my favorite player before ST. Was really disappointed when he was traded.

 

It would be nice to have a player that is that "generational guy" that you can compare everyone to for years to come, but unfortunately we don't have that and haven't had that in a long time. (RIP 21)

Edited March 27, 2020 by Slappy Mc