Williams Asks for Extension or Trade

[turtle28]

I don’t think we even know what the current asking price for Trent is from the Redskins current front office, do we? All we know is that the offers so far aren’t once’s the Redskins will accept.

If teams think the Redskins are going to just give away the best player they’ve had on their team this decade and arguably this century, they have another thing coming. They were willing to dump Dunny for a 5th bc well, he’s not close to the same zip code as Trent, he was injury prone and he’s cheap in his current contract. I’m sure the skins still want a late 1st or a 2nd for Trent and a player or a mid round pick too.

On the flip side, other teams saw Trent sit out last year, he had the growth on his head amongst many other injuries over the last 5 years, is currently expensive & wants a new deal plus he’ll be 32 in July.

I keep hoping for a trade and have since last fall but the more this drags on the more I see Trent playing in DC this year and either walking in FA or possibly being even franchised in 2021 if he comes in in Sept and he and Rivera get along during the season. I know it seems far fetched bc the two sides have been at a standstill since last May or June but there’s an outside chance they do that to Trent and he’d make nearly $35 million between this year and then next year on the franchise tag. So, it wouldn’t be the worst thing for Trent. Making $15 or 16 or 17 mil as a 33 year old LT is a good gig. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by turtle28

[ripsean21]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t even know what the current asking price for Trent is from the Redskins current front office, do we? All we know is that the offers so far aren’t once’s the Redskins will accept.

If teams think the Redskins are going to just give away the best player they’ve had on their team this decade and arguably this century, they have another thing coming. They were willing to dump Dunny for a 5th bc well, he’s not close to the same zip code as Trent, he was injury prone and he’s cheap in his current contract. Umm sure the skins still want a late 1st or a 2nd for Trent and a player or a mid round pick too.

On the flip side, other teams saw Trent sat out last year, he had the growth on his head amongst many other injuries over the last 5 years, is currently expensive & wants a new deal plus he’ll be 32 in July.

I keep hoping for a trade and have since last fall but the more this drags on the more I see Trent playing in DC this year and either walking in FA or possibly being even franchised in 2021 if he comes in in Sept and he and Rivera get along during the season. I know it seems far fetched bc the two sides have been at a standstill since last May or June but there’s an outside chance they do that to Trent and he’d make nearly $35 million between this year and then next year on the franchise tag. So, it wouldn’t be the worst thing for Trent. Making $17 mil as a 33 year old LT is a good gig. 

We will see. I mean it’s the best thing from a need standpoint and as far as the value replaced. But that said who knows and who cares. His agent has done so bad I honestly forgot we could trade Trent at this point. Hopefully he reads somewhere this guy has completely botched this. But I mean Haskins having time to throw and a good blindside protector would be ideal. Having a player like Trent would be huge. But I feel like if he came in he would just injury himself out of this year. Do I think that’s the person Trent is? No. But does he keep this agent and do something like that. Who knows

[ripsean21]

What bothers me the most would be the value of Chase and Sweat going up against Trent in practice. I think that gets lost so often having talent compete. Obviously this offseason we don’t have a clue when teams will come back. But last year I feel like Sweat probably almost doubles his sack total had he competed against Trent last offseason in practice. I know he wants to be paid paid. I’ve never been against paying him. But I mean he has to figure this out because it’s just gotten crazy!!!

[turtle28]

49 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

What bothers me the most would be the value of Chase and Sweat going up against Trent in practice. I think that gets lost so often having talent compete. Obviously this offseason we don’t have a clue when teams will come back. But last year I feel like Sweat probably almost doubles his sack total had he competed against Trent last offseason in practice. I know he wants to be paid paid. I’ve never been against paying him. But I mean he has to figure this out because it’s just gotten crazy!!!

I don't think Sweat would've gotten 15 sacks last year if Trent hadn't held out in the offseason. Sweat had 5.5 sacks in the second half of last year, he is well on his way to developing into a good DE.

Also, Donald Penn said he went extra hard on Sweat when he was signed bc he wanted to help the rookie out and develop. Obviously, Penn isn't Trent but if Penn is going 100% in August practice and Trent is only going 80% it's probably pretty similar.

[ripsean21]

52 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don't think Sweat would've gotten 15 sacks last year if Trent hadn't held out in the offseason. Sweat had 5.5 sacks in the second half of last year, he is well on his way to developing into a good DE.

Also, Donald Penn said he went extra hard on Sweat when he was signed bc he wanted to help the rookie out and develop. Obviously, Penn isn't Trent but if Penn is going 100% in August practice and Trent is only going 80% it's probably pretty similar.

I mean I can see that but August specifically after TC and the first two preseason games is the work he got to have with Sweat. They needed a real starting caliber guy there through OTA’s and everything else. We also shouldn’t have the holes with depth we have had on the OL. And with the injuries there you’d think the backups would be solid.

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

I mean I can see that but August specifically after TC and the first two preseason games is the work he got to have with Sweat. They needed a real starting caliber guy there through OTA’s and everything else. We also shouldn’t have the holes with depth we have had on the OL. And with the injuries there you’d think the backups would be solid.

I think the only way they're going to have a starting caliber LT early in camp this year is if they trade Trent before TC in July and the skins get a vet LT back in that trade or, after they trade Trent they'd sign Kelvin Beachum. I don't think Trent shows up for Training Camp for us and Penn will probably want to do what he did last year, skip half of camp and be ready to play that 3rd preseason game.

We have unproven mid-round picks as backups along our OL, does that mean those are holes?
 

I guess people can view it that way but if we drafted an OT or OG in rounds 3-5 there's no guarantee that player is as good as Christian in his third year or Wes Martin or Ross P in their 2nd year. We also just signed Cornelius Lucas who at this point is a back up swing OT too.

Edited April 9, 2020 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I think the only way they're going to have a starting caliber LT early in camp this year is if they trade Trent before TC in July and the skins get a vet LT back in that trade or, after they trade Trent they'd sign Kelvin Beachum. I don't think Trent shows up for Training Camp for us and Penn will probably want to do what he did last year, skip half of camp and be ready to play that 3rd preseason game.

We have unproven mid-round picks as backups along our OL, does that mean those are holes?
 

I guess people can view it that way but if we drafted an OT or OG in rounds 3-5 there's no guarantee that player is as good as Christian in his third year or Wes Martin or Ross P in their 2nd year. We also just signed Cornelius Lucas who at this point is a back up swing OT too.

This would be a colossal mistake on his part after missing all last year. I get that vets want to avoid as much of TC as possible. But if he expects to get into game shape and know the new offense, gel with the other members of the OL and do so well that he gets paid in 2021, he needs to show up as early as he can. 

[DaWg_LB.]

21 hours ago, offbyone said:

There are two components to this

1)The draft pick value the Redskins want for Trent Williams

2)The new contract Trent Williams wants

Are you suggesting the problem is more #1 or #2 from the Brown's perspective?

Good Morning,

I am working in attempting to work my answer your questions, and incorporate the next great reply from @turtle28, as the are linked together a bit. Its not more than problem 1 and 2, its more of a turning those simple question into the Granular Basic's of the Context in which the questions are asked.

Question 1: When thinking about your question along with with @turtle28 comments:

Quote

@turtle28 Said:

If teams think the Redskins are going to just give away the best player they’ve had on their team this decade and arguably this century, they have another thing coming. They were willing to dump Dunny for a 5th bc well, he’s not close to the same zip code as Trent, he was injury prone and he’s cheap in his current contract. I’m sure the skins still want a late 1st or a 2nd for Trent and a player or a mid round pick too.

My thought process is this statement I think sums up one of the reasons the some Redskins fans overvalue what Trent's market value is. True he has been one of the best players of the last decade.....the past 10 years. There seems to be a "Sentimental" attachment to him. Trent is still has value and probably still has some good years left in the tank (if healthy), but I think its fair to say that 10 years in the league and at 32 years of age, no NFL player (except maybe QB in some RARE cases) is an ascending talent and are most likely on the Decline. With this basic tenant of the situation, I would not be willing as a GM to trade a 1rst round pick or an Ascending talent (on a 5 year rookie deal) + a mid round pick, does not make sense for another team IMO.

Question 2: When thinking about your question along with with @turtle28 comments:

Quote

@turtle28 Said:

On the flip side, other teams saw Trent sit out last year, he had the growth on his head amongst many other injuries over the last 5 years, is currently expensive & wants a new deal plus he’ll be 32 in July.

My thought is With these items here, the Injuries history over the past 6 years...5 if you say he played 15 or more games. He also has shown he will no longer play for the skins. That's having an asset with Value that you cannot use, and cannot keep, further destroying the leverage, add that this move would also Free up some SIGNIFICANT cap space for the skins (which skins fans dont seem to be viewing as extra value/bennefit already built into the deal). When you add all that to the fact the he will be 32 months before the start of the season, I think that destroys the 2nd round pick value and just based off the rummored requests, and the projections seen in here, the skins would not want the type of player that would be offered in addition to a 3rd round pick, as for stated reasons, from a Brown's fan perspective, Trent Holds about a 3rd round value.  

 

Example, one of the more commonly proposed deals I saw in here was Njoku (1rst round pick, ascending talent and on a rookie deal) + 3rd round for Trent. From some Browns fan perspectives (I am one), Njoku by himself in the context of the situation could be viewed as being more valuable than Trent Williams, by someone who has not cheered and loved him as a player for a deacade, taking all the emotion out and going generic here: Trading a young ascending TE (TE is a HUGE position of need for the skins and, they are not in position to address with no 2nd) for an OT (HUGE need for the Browns, who are in position to address the need #10), who is on the Decline (32 yo), Has not played a full16 games in a season in 6 years, has significant financial demands, and has shown he will sit out an entire season over this demand. Add that he has vowed AND shown he will never play for the redskins again, which destroys any final leverage that may be had by the skins, because the "We can just keep him and he'll play at a pro bowl level" is not an option.

When it boils down it "Feels" to me that, Some Skins fans think Trent is worth a 1rst or Njoku + 3rd from the Browns and some Browns fans think that Njoku is worth Trent Williams + 3rd from the Skins

Edited April 9, 2020 by DaWg_LB.

[turtle28]

12 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

This would be a colossal mistake on his part after missing all last year. I get that vets want to avoid as much of TC as possible. But if he expects to get into game shape and know the new offense, gel with the other members of the OL and do so well that he gets paid in 2021, he needs to show up as early as he can. 

He should show up, he’ll, he should show up for OTAs but the reality is he doesn’t need to and probably won’t. I don’t think it will make a huge difference in his performance. He can work out on his own as all players do now a days. This isn’t the 80s where a lot of players literally took the offseason off and then used training camp to get their butts back into shape, its rare that that happens with pro players now. What matters for Trent is what he does during this season - whether it’s in DC or somewhere else - because that and only that will determine the size of his next contract. The damage has already been done on the other stuff, no walking that back now and skipping camp really doesn’t change that if he has another pro bowl season at 32 years old. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

24 minutes ago, DaWg_LB. said:

Good Morning,

I am working in attempting to work my answer your questions, and incorporate the next great reply from @turtle28, as the are linked together a bit. Its not more than problem 1 and 2, its more of a turning those simple question into the Granular Basic's of the Context in which the questions are asked.

Question 1: When thinking about your question along with with @turtle28 comments:

My thought process is this statement I think sums up one of the reasons the some Redskins fans overvalue what Trent's market value is. True he has been one of the best players of the last decade.....the past 10 years. There seems to be a "Sentimental" attachment to him. Trent is still has value and probably still has some good years left in the tank (if healthy), but I think its fair to say that 10 years in the league and at 32 years of age, no NFL player (except maybe QB in some RARE cases) is an ascending talent and are most likely on the Decline. With this basic tenant of the situation, I would not be willing as a GM to trade a 1rst round pick or an Ascending talent (on a 5 year rookie deal) + a mid round pick, does not make sense for another team IMO.

Question 2: When thinking about your question along with with @turtle28 comments:

My thought is With these items here, the Injuries history over the past 6 years...5 if you say he played 15 or more games. He also has shown he will no longer play for the skins. That's having an asset with Value that you cannot use, and cannot keep, further destroying the leverage, add that this move would also Free up some SIGNIFICANT cap space for the skins (which skins fans dont seem to be viewing as extra value/bennefit already built into the deal). When you add all that to the fact the he will be 32 months before the start of the season, I think that destroys the 2nd round pick value and just based off the rummored requests, and the projections seen in here, the skins would not want the type of player that would be offered in addition to a 3rd round pick, as for stated reasons, from a Brown's fan perspective, Trent Holds about a 3rd round value.  

 

Example, one of the more commonly proposed deals I saw in here was Njoku (1rst round pick, ascending talent and on a rookie deal) + 3rd round for Trent. From some Browns fan perspectives (I am one), Njoku by himself in the context of the situation could be viewed as being more valuable than Trent Williams, by someone who has not cheered and loved him as a player for a deacade, taking all the emotion out and going generic here: Trading a young ascending TE (TE is a HUGE position of need for the skins and, they are not in position to address with no 2nd) for an OT (HUGE need for the Browns, who are in position to address the need #10), who is on the Decline (32 yo), Has not played a full16 games in a season in 6 years, has significant financial demands, and has shown he will sit out an entire season over this demand. Add that he has vowed AND shown he will never play for the redskins again, which destroys any final leverage that may be had by the skins, because the "We can just keep him and he'll play at a pro bowl level" is not an option.

When it boils down it "Feels" to me that, Some Skins fans think Trent is worth a 1rst or Njoku + 3rd from the Browns and some Browns fans think that Njoku is worth Trent Williams + 3rd from the Skins

So there must be someplace to meet in the middle. I’d do a straight player swap tbh. You all’s are getting a pro bowl top 5 LT player - something that if Brice Allen would’ve traded you last year may have helped you get into the playoffs considering your play at LT greatly affected your passing game.

As far as Njoku goes, the Browns hurt his value when they signed Hooper. Doing that made Njoku a part time player at best. So, you are analyzing Trent in a certain way, but I don’t think you are analyzing the Njoku situation through that same lens Njoku missed most of last year too and - unlike w/ Trent - the Browns just signed his replacement! 
 

Look, the way I think the Browns should look at this is that they’re getting a pro Bowl LT who has several years left in the tank. Nobody knows how many exactly, but my guess would be at least 3. That’s 3 years that Baker’s backside & frontside are protected by pro bowl OTs, that’s huge for his development and for your passing game!

Also, as I said your front office already replaced your player. He had an injury which cost him most of last year which hurts his value some as well and so, he really only has one year of good production from two years ago.

I think Browns fans need to come to the conclusion - like Redskins fans already have about Trent - that Njoku is gone after this season! They’re not going to re-sign him - he’ll they aren’t even going to keep him on the 5th year option - bc they signed Hooper. So, it would be smart to trade him for a pro bowl LT. That would help out your offense more then what I’d describe as at best a part time TE who mostly will be riding the pine and playing special teams.
 

 

Edited April 9, 2020 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

4 hours ago, turtle28 said:

He should show up, he’ll, he should show up for OTAs but the reality is he doesn’t need to and probably won’t. I don’t think it will make a huge difference in his performance. He can work out on his own as all players do now a days. This isn’t the 80s where a lot of players literally took the offseason off and then used training camp to get their butts back into shape, its rare that that happens with pro players now. 

You and I have been over this. You keep misunderstanding what OTAs and TC are about. It's not about lifting weights, and running, and doing agility drills. It is about learning the offense that they are going to install, working as a cohesive team with the other players next to you and acting and reacting to other 300+lb players with what they are going to do. Individual agility drills and strength drills are not going to replace that aspect.

Trent will not be in football shape until he gets into camp and actually goes up against others who are competing. 

And right now, he hasn't done that since 2018. So that's quite a bit of rust he needs to shake off when it come to that. 
 

Quote

 

What matters for Trent is what he does during this season - whether it’s in DC or somewhere else - because that and only that will determine the size of his next contract.

 

 

 

If he doesn't shake off the football rust, he will be in the glaring lights to other teams during the season as to how well he is prepared to continue his career at a high level. Not coming to camp to get ready? Get ready for him to not be the Trent (that you keep thinking he can just automatically snap back to being) for at least a good month during the regular season (because of smaller practice windows, fewer practices and more of those practices are about the specific game plan). 

So he comes in rusty. Plays below what we expect a Top 5 LT to play for at least a quarter of the season and then gradually gets better after that. Here's the thing. He most likely won't get that huge contract if he does this.

And if he does like last year and only report with 6 games left? He's cooked as far as getting the contract he wants.

Quote

The damage has already been done on the other stuff, no walking that back now and skipping camp really doesn’t change that if he has another pro bowl season at 32 years old.

My point is that he's not gonna have another PB season at 32 years old if he doesn't get in here and shake off the rust (since he hasn't played against real live players who are truly competing since 2018).

This isn't running. Or swimming. Or golf. Those sports don't require you to act and react and move your body to the unexpected movements of another person. And the longer he sits out from getting in here to re-acclimate himself, the longer it will take for him to produce at that PB level. He will be slower to act. Slower to react to another player getting leverage on him. Etc...

If he actually wants to do the smart thing here? If he doesn't get traded, he gets his butt in camp...is a model player... and then goes on in the offseason to another team.

[aceinthehouse]

I prefer to send Trent to the Browns...

Why?

1)AFC Team= We shouldn't have to face Trent very often.

2)Punishment= Its where football careers go & die. (Say what you want about the Redskins & Snyder...At least the Redskins know HOW to win a SB. Poor Cousins in Minnesota & Trent if in Cleveland would be nice closer to a couple of pricks.)

3)If any or some of the picks we get from them are for 2021? There's a good chance, those picks are top 15 in any round. Yea, yea, yea...the browns are gonna be good finally this year yada yada yada. They've had more coaches in the last 5 years, than we've had QB's.  

[naptownskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, aceinthehouse said:

I prefer to send Trent to the Browns...

Why?

1)AFC Team= We shouldn't have to face Trent very often.

2)Punishment= Its where football careers go & die. (Say what you want about the Redskins & Snyder...At least the Redskins know HOW to win a SB. Poor Cousins in Minnesota & Trent if in Cleveland would be nice closer to a couple of pricks.)

3)If any or some of the picks we get from them are for 2021? There's a good chance, those picks are top 15 in any round. Yea, yea, yea...the browns are gonna be good finally this year yada yada yada. They've had more coaches in the last 5 years, than we've had QB's.  

The bad thing about sending him to Cleveland this year is that we have to play against him.  Granted, it's at Cleveland and not home in Ral Jon, but we still have to play him once.  

[turtle28]

@Thaiphoon If we were talking about Morgan Moses or another OT, I’d agree with you, but outside of Trent needing to be there to learn the offense - which I agree is immensely important - his reaction time is not going to be that off. I know we don’t agree. It’s fine, but we’re talking about one of the most athletic LTs in NFL history here, not an avg moving guy who’s just big. I bet whenever Trent gets back to a practice - whether it’s in Dc or somewhere else within the first practice he has back he’s stonewalling the teams best past pass rusher - whether that’s going to be here & him going against Chase Young or Sweat, CLE & Myles Garrett, Minny & Daniel Hunter or Tampa and Shaquil Barrett who had 19.5 sacks last year.

We’ve seen Trent miss a month twice for weed, we’ve seen him miss games for a few weeks w/ injuries and we’ve seen him play with a patella injury for months and the dude could block anyone.

He’s not normal! He’s a freak of nature. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by turtle28

[turtle28]

6 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

The bad thing about sending him to Cleveland this year is that we have to play against him.  Granted, it's at Cleveland and not home in Ral Jon, but we still have to play him once.  

That’s fine, I’d actually pay $ to see Trent vs Chase Young!