Williams Asks for Extension or Trade

[MikeT14]

1 hour ago, aceinthehouse said:

I'm beginning to feel like there's more value for Trent for trading him for a "player", than for draft picks.

I'm wondering if any team would trade 2nd rounder for him because of the risk involved with him.

But EVERY team would trade a player of their own who they don't have plans for, to have a player of Trent's abilities as a LT on their team.

They just don't want to risk draft resources for it. (See: Raiders who traded draft picks for Antonio Brown, who NEVER played a game for them)

My thought...?

Trade Trent for a player...

Trent for WR Diggs

Trent for CB Darius Slay

Both needs that would help this team.

Something like this, actually my present more value for us.

Mainly because Trent wants a gazillion dollar contract restructure.

###TradeTrentToday

Neither team would do that imo.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, aceinthehouse said:

I'm beginning to feel like there's more value for Trent for trading him for a "player", than for draft picks.

I'm wondering if any team would trade 2nd rounder for him because of the risk involved with him.

But EVERY team would trade a player of their own who they don't have plans for, to have a player of Trent's abilities as a LT on their team.

They just don't want to risk draft resources for it. (See: Raiders who traded draft picks for Antonio Brown, who NEVER played a game for them)

My thought...?

Trade Trent for a player...

Trent for WR Diggs

Trent for CB Darius Slay

Both needs that would help this team.

Something like this, actually my present more value for us.

Mainly because Trent wants a gazillion dollar contract restructure.

###TradeTrentToday

Might want to check Minny & Detroit’s depth chart before making such a proposal. They have starting LTs (Riley Reif & Taylor Decker). Sure they could use Trent and move their current LTs to RT, but not at the expense of another pro bowl player. Also, as @ripsean21 said, Minny can't afford to pay Trent.

I’m with him and @MikeT14. I don't see any way this happens but I guess it's not totally impossible, just far fetched.

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by turtle28

[MikeT14]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Might want to check Minny & Detroit’s depth chart before making such a proposal. They have starting LTs (Riley Reif & Taylor Decker). Sure they could use Trent and move their current LTs to RT, but not at the expense of another pro bowl player. Also, as @ripsean21 said, Minny can't afford to pay Trent.

I’m with him and @MikeT14. I don't see any way this happens but I guess it's not totally impossible, just far fetched.

 

Reiff sucks. They’re gonna replace him at LT. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Reiff sucks. They’re gonna replace him at LT. 

Maybe, even though he's not the best, it's not easy to find even serviceable LTs. They don't pick in the draft until #25 and the best LTs don’t hit the open market. Very unlikely they’ll find an upgrade over him this offseason. Maybe they take a LT at 25 to develop for a year and then move on from Reiff next year.

Edited March 1, 2020 by turtle28

[Thaiphoon]

20 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Yes. Bruce was the President of the team, he continued to employ Larry Hess even though most people - including you - had wanted him gone for years. Many have reported that Hess and his team did a poor job not only w/ Trent but with most players on the team with misdiagnosed injuries and not rehabbing them correctly to get them back on the field quicker. Other players on the team acknowledged this too. 

So, yes, I blame Allen for more then just not trading Trent. I blame him for not handling the issue properly for over a year before Trent even decided he didn't want to play last year w/o a contract extension.

Trent trusted the Redskins front office, their trainers/doctors to take care of him, they failed at that for several years. And yes, Trent shares blame bc if he was worried about his growth he should have sought a second and third opinion, but just bc he didn't does not excuse Bruce or the Redskins former training staff’s inadequate handling of the situation either.

On top of that - and I’ve mentioned this before - Trent was on the field when he saw Alex Smith’s leg snap in half. It doesn't shock me at all that w/in a game or two of that happening that Trent was shut down for the season and hasn’t played a game for us since.
 

Trent hasn't said this publicly but I have to imagine seeing Alex’s injury, knowing that Alex almost died of infection and then Trent himself almost having cancer reach his brain got him to the decision that he had last offseason where he wasn't going to play for the Redskins unless Bruce was gone, Larry Hess was gone and he got some more guaranteed money.

I don't think for one second that for a 32 year old vet LT seeing his Qb probably play his last snap on the field after snapping his leg in half and he himself knowing he had no more guaranteed money on his deal after 2018 led to his decision to hold out until the front office and training staff changes he wanted on the team we’re made and a new deal with guaranteed $ was given to him or, he wouldn't play again for the Redskins.

You're confusing things Turtle. Larry Hess is a trainer. He's not a team doctor. Those are employed by INOVA. 

You want to blame Hess for misdiagnosing sports injuries? I'm game. And if Trent had said that was why he was holding out, I'd be more on his side.

But he blamed the team for mishandling the cancer diagnosis. 

Hess has nothing to do with that alleged "misdiagnosed cancer". 

So the words you just typed conflating the two things (poor training staff and INOVA doctors not diagnosing cancer) are in vain. 

THIS is why this situation persisted. Because the average fan conflates the two and then is "pay Trent his money" because of it. 

Which is EXACTLY what Trent was counting on.

So try to focus on my actual question, please.

What specifically did Bruce and the team mishandle about his cancer diagnosis? Not an injury diagnosis and treatment...the cancer diagnosis. Because THAT is allegedly (according to Trent and his sources) the original raison d'etre for his holdout.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

You're confusing things Turtle. Larry Hess is a trainer. He's not a team doctor. Those are employed by INOVA. 

You want to blame Hess for misdiagnosing sports injuries? I'm game. And if Trent had said that was why he was holding out, I'd be more on his side.

But he blamed the team for mishandling the cancer diagnosis. 

Hess has nothing to do with that alleged "misdiagnosed cancer". 

So the words you just typed conflating the two things (poor training staff and INOVA doctors not diagnosing cancer) are in vain. 

THIS is why this situation persisted. Because the average fan conflates the two and then is "pay Trent his money" because of it. 

Which is EXACTLY what Trent was counting on.

So try to focus on my actual question, please.

What specifically did Bruce and the team mishandle about his cancer diagnosis? Not an injury diagnosis and treatment...the cancer diagnosis. Because THAT is allegedly (according to Trent and his sources) the original raison d'etre for his holdout.

And this is why I don't even bother to comment on this and I wish I hadn't. It doesn't matter what anyone says, you’ll throw it back on Trent every time. That's fine, that's your opinion, but I don't agree with you.

I feel if we can get Trent back at a price that make sense - like a 3 year deal for $50 million - we’d be foolish not to extend him for 3 years. If he won't play bc he wants to make $18 million a year on avg, I’m trading him for a late 1st or a 2nd round pick and signing Jack Conklin or Kelvin Beachum for at least $3 million less per year and maybe even cheaper then that per.

Edited March 2, 2020 by turtle28

[naptownskinsfan]

On 2/29/2020 at 10:32 PM, turtle28 said:

Yes. Bruce was the President of the team, he continued to employ Larry Hess even though most people - including you - had wanted him gone for years. Many have reported that Hess and his team did a poor job not only w/ Trent but with most players on the team with misdiagnosed injuries and not rehabbing them correctly to get them back on the field quicker. Other players on the team acknowledged this too. 

So, yes, I blame Allen for more then just not trading Trent. I blame him for not handling the issue properly for over a year before Trent even decided he didn't want to play last year w/o a contract extension.

Trent trusted the Redskins front office, their trainers/doctors to take care of him, they failed at that for several years. And yes, Trent shares blame bc if he was worried about his growth he should have sought a second and third opinion, but just bc he didn't does not excuse Bruce or the Redskins former training staff’s inadequate handling of the situation either.

On top of that - and I’ve mentioned this before - Trent was on the field when he saw Alex Smith’s leg snap in half. It doesn't shock me at all that w/in a game or two of that happening that Trent was shut down for the season and hasn’t played a game for us since.
 

Trent hasn't said this publicly but I have to imagine seeing Alex’s injury, knowing that Alex almost died of infection and then Trent himself almost having cancer reach his brain got him to the decision that he had last offseason where he wasn't going to play for the Redskins unless Bruce was gone, Larry Hess was gone and he got some more guaranteed money.

I don't think for one second that for a 32 year old vet LT seeing his Qb probably play his last snap on the field after snapping his leg in half and he himself knowing he had no more guaranteed money on his deal after 2018 led to his decision to hold out until the front office and training staff changes he wanted on the team we’re made and a new deal with guaranteed $ was given to him or, he wouldn't play again for the Redskins.

You do know that Larry Hess had nothing to do with the infection that Smith had, nor the cancer diagnosis?  That's all on Inova Health, who are the team doctors and diagnose those things.  The S&C staff doesn't diagnose injuries.  They work with the doctors to help treat them and plan the rehab for them.  They also consult with each player on their weight training, conditioning, etc.  

Take a look here- https://www.baltimoreravens.com/team/coaches-roster/steve-saunders

Do you see anything about diagnosing injuries?  Injury prevention?  Yes, absolutely.  But these guys aren't making the decisions on if it's a pull or a sprain, fracture, etc.  They most certainly aren't making cancer diagnoses while treating players for sprained hammies or pulled muscles.

So again, back to Inova.  This is the group of doctors that the Redskins use in-house.  Do the doctors that they encounter every day have an oncologist amongst them?  For a football team, probably not.  Would they try to get Williams to one if he wanted to?  I would imagine so.  According to the story that's leaked out, Williams was encouraged to seek a second opinion, but he didn't.  

I held my opinion on this until Williams returned to the team and we found out more of his side of the situation.  While Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder have treated their players reprehensibly during the time that Allen oversaw things as team president, I don't think they did much wrong here in the situation.  Snyder even tried to save face by making the private jet and other team members available to Williams while he had surgery.  But Williams came back and finally opened his mouth, and it all made sense to me.  It's about the money, and not much else.  He's banking on people who think Larry Hess was the problem- and a lot of Redskins nation has bought it completely.  He's completely misrepresented his situation, and needs to be gone from this team.  Get what we can and move on.  It's an integrity thing at this point with me.  And while we know that Snyder doesn't have much of that considering that he let Bruce run roughshod over everyone (and I mean everyone), Ron Rivera has to start somewhere with the culture.  

 

[naptownskinsfan]

4 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

You're confusing things Turtle. Larry Hess is a trainer. He's not a team doctor. Those are employed by INOVA. 

You want to blame Hess for misdiagnosing sports injuries? I'm game. And if Trent had said that was why he was holding out, I'd be more on his side.

But he blamed the team for mishandling the cancer diagnosis. 

Hess has nothing to do with that alleged "misdiagnosed cancer". 

So the words you just typed conflating the two things (poor training staff and INOVA doctors not diagnosing cancer) are in vain. 

THIS is why this situation persisted. Because the average fan conflates the two and then is "pay Trent his money" because of it. 

Which is EXACTLY what Trent was counting on.

So try to focus on my actual question, please.

What specifically did Bruce and the team mishandle about his cancer diagnosis? Not an injury diagnosis and treatment...the cancer diagnosis. Because THAT is allegedly (according to Trent and his sources) the original raison d'etre for his holdout.

I just made a post about this and should've just deferred to this.  

Williams knows that most fans aren't going to have a clue about who does what for an NFL team.  He also knows that the Redskins have had a lot of injuries the past couple years, and that the media has helped point some of the criticism to Larry Hess before all of this went down.  So it's not a stretch to get the average fan thinking that Larry Hess has something to do with non-football related issues.  

It's a well-designed ploy, and I just hope that Rivera has enough integrity to realize the ploy and just send him away.  Culture has to start somewhere, and not allowing someone back who is manipulating things like this is where culture starts.  As I said in my post, it's an integrity issue for me right now.  So he's not a distraction, it's best to part ways at this point and move on. 

And look, I want to be sympathetic to Williams here.  Chances are, we all know someone right now who is affected by cancer.  At the least, we've all know someone whose had it.  It sucks.  But from all I've read, they continued to encourage him to get a second opinion- because orthopedics aren't oncologists- and he didn't do it.  So he needs to shoulder some of the blame here.  And for me, shouldering the blame is to play this season under the current contract and not make a peep about things moving forward.  But he's already made his move.  Time for Rivera to respond. 

[MKnight82]

You guys are ridiculous.  Williams is a hero for helping get rid of Bruce.  He’s also wasted his talent playing for this crap franchise.  

[naptownskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

You guys are ridiculous.  Williams is a hero for helping get rid of Bruce.  He’s also wasted his talent playing for this crap franchise.  

Again, you won't see me argue that Bruce Allen was a saint when dealing with players- he wasn't, as evidenced by how much we had to overpay players to come here.  But Williams is leverage a very real scenario that's all too many people have encountered personally in their lives to get paid more millions of dollars for playing football, when that reason is not at all what his main issue is about since Inova Health is still employed by the Redskins.  This is, quite frankly, a pretty scummy move from Trent Williams at this point.  I don't feel any sympathy for him at all.  

[Doc Draper]

28 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

You guys are ridiculous.  Williams is a hero for helping get rid of Bruce.  He’s also wasted his talent playing for this crap franchise.  

I’m with you glad we finally got rid of Allen. Maybe you’re right- it was Willams circus holdout that helped, but agree it was a classless move on Trents part to be dishonest about it and throw other guys under the bus. But hey, Ding Dong Bruce is Gone, and every Redskins fan is happy about that. 
 

time for Trent to move on down the line. 

[offbyone]

On 2/29/2020 at 5:36 PM, turtle28 said:

Donald Penn made $2 million last year, no one else is going to sign him to start, why would you more then double his salary when there's no competition for signing him?

I think signing Conklin to be our starting LT for the next 5 years is the best option and if he isn't great playing LT next year then in 2021 you cut Moses, move Conklin back to RT and draft a LT with your likely top 15 or maybe even top 10 pick.

If we aren't going to do that, I’d rather have Kelvin Beachum then Penn. Beachum used to start at LT for the Steelers and he's also been a serviceable starting LT for the Jets the last 3 years. His cap hit was $9.5 million last year and he's also going to be 31 when the season starts while  Penn is going to be 37. 

Penn was dirt cheap last year, but then he played like a top half of the league starter and gave us a full season.  5M for a proven starter is a lot more, but still cheap, especially if the market for the top guys goes to 19M/year.  Of course if we resign TW at 18M/year we might not have the cash for this.  But if draft someone we might want a dependable backup and someone to give him time to develop.

[MikeT14]

15 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Maybe, even though he's not the best, it's not easy to find even serviceable LTs. They don't pick in the draft until #25 and the best LTs don’t hit the open market. Very unlikely they’ll find an upgrade over him this offseason. Maybe they take a LT at 25 to develop for a year and then move on from Reiff next year.

Move Brian O'Neill to LT, and sign or draft the RT. Or move Reiff there. 

[turtle28]

9 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Again, you won't see me argue that Bruce Allen was a saint when dealing with players- he wasn't, as evidenced by how much we had to overpay players to come here.  But Williams is leverage a very real scenario that's all too many people have encountered personally in their lives to get paid more millions of dollars for playing football, when that reason is not at all what his main issue is about since Inova Health is still employed by the Redskins.  This is, quite frankly, a pretty scummy move from Trent Williams at this point.  I don't feel any sympathy for him at all.  

My issue is some are getting to caught in the emotions of what Trent did last year instead of moving on to the present. There is no doubt that Trent made statements that may or may not be true, none of know we weren't there and he almost had cancer go to his brain, IMO that gives him free reign to say what he wants and how he feels at least once to get it off his chest. That's done, over with!

Time to move on to the now.
 

Who honestly doesn't believe that Trent Williams isn’t the best option for the Redskins at LT - at least for the next two years - and maybe as many as the next 4 or 5 years?

I think we all would agree that as a player he's the best option for them at LT - the 2nd of 3rd most important position on the football field. 
 

Again, take the emotions of last year our of it. It doesn't matter anymore, it clearly doesn't matter to Dan Snyder, why would it matter to some fans on a message board when it has no direct effect on them?
 

I will repeat. You try to re-sign Trent to a deal something like 3 years $50 million with a $20 million signing bonus and $30 million in guarantees. That can go up some, but I wouldn't pay him on avg more that $17 million a year over the next 3 years.

Then, if Christian doesn't take a significant step forward this offseason/preseason, you draft a LT in round 2 or 3 of the 2021 draft to again groom behind Trent in hopes that in 3 or 4 years when Trent retires that he's ready to start, and if not he can replace Moses after this year if Moses doesn't improve this year and then in the 2022 draft you draft an OT again in round 2 or 3 to be the swing tackle behind Trent & the guy you draft next year. 

Edited March 2, 2020 by turtle28

[MKnight82]

18 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Reiff sucks. They’re gonna replace him at LT. 

Ya but the Vikings have no cap space to extend Trent.