AZBearsFan Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Dalton isn’t anyone’s savior - he’s a guy who can give you competent play through the end of the season when we can go get the next guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 I guess my thread from Friday can go **** itself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: Dalton isn’t anyone’s savior - he’s a guy who can give you competent play through the end of the season when we can go get the next guy. The defense should be able to keep him from needing to do too much, so less forcing from him the better. Still not a fan of it but could definitely be worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Honesty we are at a weird junction. We have a GM and HC that are fully in win-now mode, but also have a poor QB - so we need to be able to try and invest in a potential franchise QB in the next 2 drafts. Both are my opinion of course. Dalton might help us get a wildcard for the next two years but unless we're are fielding the 2018 defense I can't see us doing much damage in the playoffs without some stellar FA and draft work these next two years. This is in a large way because he isn't playing on a rookie scale deal, but you're paying a lot for a high floor player with him as well. That's just a poor longterm plan for the franchise to me. But if they don't win now then Pace might be gone in 2020. Crappy scenario imo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 6 hours ago, Sugashane said: Honesty we are at a weird junction. We have a GM and HC that are fully in win-now mode, but also have a poor QB - so we need to be able to try and invest in a potential franchise QB in the next 2 drafts. Both are my opinion of course. Dalton might help us get a wildcard for the next two years but unless we're are fielding the 2018 defense I can't see us doing much damage in the playoffs without some stellar FA and draft work these next two years. This is in a large way because he isn't playing on a rookie scale deal, but you're paying a lot for a high floor player with him as well. That's just a poor longterm plan for the franchise to me. But if they don't win now then Pace might be gone in 2020. Crappy scenario imo. This whole thing was built around Mitch being good. If he were we would have as good a shot at being a contender as pretty much anyone. That, by and large, is the reason I’m far less critical of Pace than some of you - the only part of his long term vision for the team he really didn’t get right is the QB part of it. It’s not flawless by any means but this team is good enough to compete for a title if the QB is what he expected Mitch to be by now. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: This whole thing was built around Mitch being good. If he were we would have as good a shot at being a contender as pretty much anyone. That, by and large, is the reason I’m far less critical of Pace than some of you - the only part of his long term vision for the team he really didn’t get right is the QB part of it. It’s not flawless by any means but this team is good enough to compete for a title if the QB is what he expected Mitch to be by now. Sans some of the injuries we had in 2019 I do believe that's accurate but even a "Perfect Mitch" would have struggled to overcome some of the key losses at TE, OL, and DL. Without a good TE and a decent running attack this offense plainly can't function well. So while "fixing" Mitch is pretty much a key to long term success with him as the starter those other issues also need to be front and center as well. As for Andy Dalton he's taken Cincy to the playoffs 4 times (2011-2014) and just missed a 5th time in 2015. That's a positive. The negative is he lost in the first round all 4 times and his stats were atrocious and I mean really, really bad. But those were also his first 4 years in the NFL too. From 2016-2018 he played reasonably well but as a whole Cincy began to decline badly and 2019 was a disaster. Opponents blitz the hell out of them. He was sacked 37 times and had another 60 hits and hurries and in 2018 he was under even more pressure getting pressured, hit, or sacked on nearly 25% of his attempts. Basically he got the crap kicked out of him. So the decline in his 2019 stats isn't all on him. Do I believe Andy Dalton is a franchise level QB capable of winning a Super Bowl? No, but teams with very good defenses have won with worse QBs than him or at the very least certainly no better than him. What I do believe however is that at this moment in time he's at least as good as Mitch Trubisky and better than the 2019 version of Mitch we saw. It's not so much that I'm lobbying for Dalton as saying that based on the stated criteria of finding an experienced vet with previous success as a starter Andy Dalton ticks all of the check marks and may well be the best choice out of those we might possibly sign or trade for. So Pace's interest in him is most likely legit. IF Mitch fails to progress in 2020 as expected and Dalton or another QB takes over we'll definitely be back in the market to draft another rookie prospect who'll need at least a year or two to fully engage in this offense of Nagy's. This is where having Dalton or someone whose at least an equivalent will payoff by keeping the team competitive and potentially in the playoffs each year while we continue to search for our QB Messiah that Mitch failed to become. I'm not married to the thought that it must be Dalton I'm only looking at those who might be a good fit and also who could be had on some kind of an affordable basis and he's pretty much at the top of the list. Edited March 1, 2020 by soulman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: This whole thing was built around Mitch being good. If he were we would have as good a shot at being a contender as pretty much anyone. That, by and large, is the reason I’m far less critical of Pace than some of you - the only part of his long term vision for the team he really didn’t get right is the QB part of it. It’s not flawless by any means but this team is good enough to compete for a title if the QB is what he expected Mitch to be by now. I agree wholeheartedly. The OL regression is something no one saw coming. They took a solid step forward and outside of Long there was little reason to expect a drop in production. Shaheen was a bad pick but no one could have seen Burton dropping off the face of the earth like that. The defense had some major injuries and was still one of the best in the NFL. Tru is what was his worst choice and is Chicago's limiting factor imo, but it is one almost everyone was able to get behind his pick at the time for various reasons. That doesn't absolve him of his poor choice but he got a few years to rebuild the team and then got to pick his QB and HC. It hasn't worked out very well overall, but he might have more slack than we anticipate too. Maybe we have some success and he moves on from Tru. If Tru doesn't make a dramatic 180 then I'm just hoping that Pace doesn't compound the bad pick with an extension. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Terms of the new CBA notwithstanding I'm 99% certain Pace will exercise Mitch's 5th year option and take the risk. That could be greatly lessened by a change in the way the amount of the 5th year option is calculated but we don't know what that means yet and precisely what impact it will have on Mitch's option amount. If it's based in his 2019 stats it should be on the low side. As I posted previously I believe we got a little lightheaded over the 2018 results and failed to fully account for why we did as well as we did which had a lot to do with both defensive scoring and remaining relatively healthy all year long. The PK fiasco stole attention from the fact that our offense still struggled to consistently produce points and our lack of NFL quality OL depth. Those issues along with Mitch's regression caught up with us and blindsided everyone and I'll include Pace in that as well. Losing two key players and team leaders in Long and Hicks hurt more than we may have anticipated. The defense had to convert from playing by Vic Fangio's rules to Chuck Pagano's and by having to move Eddie Jackson into more of a SS role we lost one of the best centerfielders in the NFL and his impact due to his playing out of position. It all added up when we didn't really have any "give" to spare. Every GM has his share of bad draft picks and FA signings we just don't spend time evaluating those of other GMs. Look at Detroit. They have their franchise QB but for how long have they struggled to put a winning team around him? How many bad QB picks has Cleveland had over the last decade or two? Despite having to tolerate John Fox's crap for three years Pace has gotten us out of the ****ter at the very least and close to competing for a championship again. So at the moment it's not really as bad as it looks to some. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, soulman said: Despite having to tolerate John Fox's crap for three years Pace has gotten us out of the ****ter at the very least and close to competing for a championship again. So at the moment it's not really as bad as it looks to some. Oh, for sure. That's why I'd like a solid plan B if (when?) Mitch implodes again. Dalton's an okay plan B, I guess, and I've said all along I prefer him to Newton or Winston. I'd rather they draft Hurts or some other quality kid, though. Or get Carr and signal Mitch is done (barring a miracle). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 52 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Oh, for sure. That's why I'd like a solid plan B if (when?) Mitch implodes again. Dalton's an okay plan B, I guess, and I've said all along I prefer him to Newton or Winston. I'd rather they draft Hurts or some other quality kid, though. Or get Carr and signal Mitch is done (barring a miracle). As bat **** crazy as Bears fans and the media went over Cutler's interceptions can you imagine what would happen if Winston was QB. If that happened it's a damn good thing marijuana is now legal in Illinois. LOLOL In the matter of Carr vs Mitch I believe we already know what Carr's upside is but we still aren't 100% certain of Mitch's. There are times when his skill set remind me of Aaron Rodgers and others where he reminds me more of Kyle Orton. My guess is this season we're gonna find out more about which of those two Mitch's career path is gonna follow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 3 hours ago, soulman said: As bat **** crazy as Bears fans and the media went over Cutler's interceptions can you imagine what would happen if Winston was QB. If that happened it's a damn good thing marijuana is now legal in Illinois. LOLOL In the matter of Carr vs Mitch I believe we already know what Carr's upside is but we still aren't 100% certain of Mitch's. There are times when his skill set remind me of Aaron Rodgers and others where he reminds me more of Kyle Orton. My guess is this season we're gonna find out more about which of those two Mitch's career path is gonna follow. HonestlyI think after watching the O stink for most of 3 years they are cool with some INTs as long as Bears are moving the football and regularly crossing the goal line. Amazing how the recent past can change your outlook. Hard to watch a million 3 downs and a punt. I mean we went 8-8, but didn’t it feel like 1-15? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 4 hours ago, soulman said: As bat **** crazy as Bears fans and the media went over Cutler's interceptions can you imagine what would happen if Winston was QB. I'm not a Winston fan, but Arians does run a pretty big risk-taking system... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abstract_thought Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Keep in mind teams with good defense can afford QBs that are more aggressive. The issue is that the offensive fit isn’t ideal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 26 minutes ago, abstract_thought said: Keep in mind teams with good defense can afford QBs that are more aggressive. The issue is that the offensive fit isn’t ideal. I guess? Honestly, after watching it for two years, I can't think of any quarterback who is automatically a fit for Nagy's "system". He's not doing what Reid does, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 I offer them a conditional 2021 4th round pick if they eat 10 million of his deal. The condition would make it a 3, if Dalton starts over 10+ games or he re-signs with the Bears. Otherwise they can pound sand and I will wait for him to be released or sign Keenum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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