Chase Young vs Isaiah Simmons

[AkronsWitness]

6 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

I think Simmons is just as fast and reactive as Peppers while being much larger.

Not disagreeing with that, Im just wondering why being a guy with multi positional skills is helping the crap out of Simmons but absolutely killed Peppers. Its about the similar narrative that Im referring to, not a whose better between the two. 

I hear 'just put him anywhere and he will make a play' with Simmons which caused me to have direct flashbacks to Peppers coming out.

Edited March 31, 2020 by AkronsWitness

[KingOfNewYork]

If Washington moves back to 5 they aren't getting Tua, Young or Simmons because those would be picks 2-3-4.

[YogiBiz]

On 3/4/2020 at 1:22 PM, BStanRamFan said:

You don't see Isaiah SImmons as a top 10 pick...seriously? Giants will take him if they don't trade out. 

This is hilarious. Mainly because you assume DG will make a rational decision, and not take a LT at #4 or even with a trade down lol 

[AlexGreen#20]

13 hours ago, AkronsWitness said:

Not disagreeing with that, Im just wondering why being a guy with multi positional skills is helping the crap out of Simmons but absolutely killed Peppers. Its about the similar narrative that Im referring to, not a whose better between the two. 

I hear 'just put him anywhere and he will make a play' with Simmons which caused me to have direct flashbacks to Peppers coming out.

Because Peppers was 213 pounds. For all the talk of his multi-positional skills, he didn't have the size to play as an off-ball linebacker on a regular basis. He was either a safety, or a CB if you really loved his coverage skills and a lot of teams didn't. The narrative around Peppers being that he could do anything was far more media narrative than it was reality. 

Simmons is 230 pounds, He's 4.5 inches taller. He's faster. He has a better vertical. He played off-ball linebacker in college so it's an easy projection. And honestly, his man skills might be better than Peppers' were.

Simmons is a damn monster in a way that Peppers just wasn't. 

 

[THE DUKE]

Simmons was 238 at the combine, damn near 240, made a helluva lot more plays in college than Peppers ever did, and on a bigger stage.  Simmons is my top player in the draft.

[HTTRDynasty]

5 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

If Washington moves back to 5 they aren't getting Tua, Young or Simmons because those would be picks 2-3-4.

Not that I'd trade back, but I'd be happy if I was left with Okudah.  I'd probably take him over Simmons, tbh.  I doubt Rivera would though.

[Chrissooner49er]

I would take Simmons over Young. While Chase is of course the better pass rusher--best in this class--Simmons is a chess piece that can be moved around the field. Young has  basically two spots to play--either side as a DE. You will get very good play from Young, but Simmons' versatility is a boon to a D and anathema to opposing Os.

[HTTRDynasty]

19 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

I would take Simmons over Young. While Chase is of course the better pass rusher--best in this class--Simmons is a chess piece that can be moved around the field. Young has  basically two spots to play--either side as a DE. You will get very good play from Young, but Simmons' versatility is a boon to a D and anathema to opposing Os.

This has become the most overrated thing this draft season.  I don't care if Simmons can play every position on the field.  You can only play one position at a time.  If Young is a better player at his one position than Simmons is at any of his, I'm taking Young 10 times out of 10.

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by HTTRDynasty

[Ragnarok]

I actually think it can make a young player less effective by trying to cross train them heavily early on.  That's just too much for a young player.  Look at Minkah.  The Dolphins tried to have him learn multiple positions at once and he was inconsistent.  The Steelers stuck him at one position and he went off.  Yes, he was surrounded by better defensive talent in Pittsburgh, but I think him focusing on one position had just as much of an impact.

If Simmons goes to a team that tries to use him in every manner like he did at Clemson, I think it will hurt his overall growth and impact.

[Chrissooner49er]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

This has become the most overrated thing this draft season.  I don't care if Simmons can play every position on the field.  You can only play one position at a time.  If Young is a better player at his one position than Simmons is at any of his, I'm taking Young 10 times out of 10.

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Good timing.

 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, Ragnarok said:

I actually think it can make a young player less effective by trying to cross train them heavily early on.  That's just too much for a young player.  Look at Minkah.  The Dolphins tried to have him learn multiple positions at once and he was inconsistent.  The Steelers stuck him at one position and he went off.  Yes, he was surrounded by better defensive talent in Pittsburgh, but I think him focusing on one position had just as much of an impact.

If Simmons goes to a team that tries to use him in every manner like he did at Clemson, I think it will hurt his overall growth and impact.

This, this.

Players who are versatile but actually special usually stick at one position. I think Simmons boils down to an athletic LBer that you’re hoping is more Deion Jones than recent Myles Jack (albeit bigger). 

[Tugboat]

9 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

This has become the most overrated thing this draft season.  I don't care if Simmons can play every position on the field.  You can only play one position at a time.  If Young is a better player at his one position than Simmons is at any of his, I'm taking Young 10 times out of 10.

 

Generally tend to agree with this.  But even more than that...i think that as much as Simmons is potentially a bigtime impact player as either a LBer or a versatile SS...neither of those positions is nearly as premium as that pure pass rushing DE/OLB, where Chase Young projects as an impact player.

 

The idea of the "chess piece" just has more value in an offensive sense.  Where you're the side of the ball fundamentally in charge of dictating how that player is used.  You decide how to move them around trying to create mismatches and opportunities.  When you're talking about a defensive player...it's just not feasible to have a "chess piece" put in the right situations to succeed...while having to read and react pre-snap to what an offense is doing.  You just logistically cannot have an entire defensive system built around getting that guy into the right spot on any given play.  Not at the NFL level, with the detail of gameplanning and the level of raw talent everywhere.  Not so much because it's too much for the "Chess Piece"...but because it's too much for everyone else to completely shift what they're doing on a snap by snap basis, to maximize the versatile player.  Because you've never going to have a whole defense full of "positionless players" who can just shuffle to 3 or 4 different roles on any given play.  It neuters the way you can realistically use that "super versatile defensive weapon".

 

Whereas an edge rusher like Chase Young?  Line 'em up and let 'em go generate pressure.  Let's you actually get more creative in the way you handle the rest of the defense as a unit.  Which is so much more important imo.

[Teen Girl Squad]

On 3/31/2020 at 3:47 PM, AkronsWitness said:

Not disagreeing with that, Im just wondering why being a guy with multi positional skills is helping the crap out of Simmons but absolutely killed Peppers. Its about the similar narrative that Im referring to, not a whose better between the two. 

I hear 'just put him anywhere and he will make a play' with Simmons which caused me to have direct flashbacks to Peppers coming out.

Its because Peppers was a great athlete was really wasn't good at any of the positions and they were trying to find his niche. Teams absolutely targeted him when trying to attack the defense. Simmons is more like Ramsey in that he's all over because he's good at a lot of things, not as a undisciplined roamer. As to if he's great/elite at anything is another matter but as someone had Peppers on all of my "pick a bust" lists that year, Simmons is a different caliber of prospect.