Every throw graded: Ultimate scouting report of Browns' Baker Mayfield

[NudeTayne]

2 hours ago, Mega Ron said:

When you assume you make yourself an ***.

Nailed it.

🙄🙄🙄

Edited March 1, 2020 by NudeTayne
It definitely reads that way.

[bruceb]

4 hours ago, buno67 said:

shouldn't the only read have been the screen to Chubb?

I do not believe that there ever should be an only read.

You have to take advantage of what the D gives you.

And you have to see what that is before the ball is snapped.

4 hours ago, buno67 said:

With that play coming off of screen blocking, he is never going to make his way to Hunt because the blocking was never going to hold up.

If he had scanned the D pre-snap he would have known that Hunt might be his best opportunity.

4 hours ago, buno67 said:

He should have never seen Hunt immediately cause his eyes should have never been over there

He could have glanced right during his drop and then locked on the left.

4 hours ago, buno67 said:

Also you can say he is listening to the coaches because it seems like Landry was set up to get open in that area with a route by OBJ that seemed to free him up.

This I find easy to believe.

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

honestly think Hunt was a decoy to mess with the safeties. I wonder if they would have gone back to the play and tell baker to look for Hunt earlier, since they didnt cover him the first time around. Or run the same play but with different protection scheme to get it to Hunt...

This was my next question: Did they learn and apply anything from that golden wasted opportunity?

[candyman93]

Get Baker 2 OT’s and then judge him.

 

He will have the best possible personnel a QB can ask for on offense.

[buno67]

44 minutes ago, bruceb said:

This was my next question: Did they learn and apply anything from that golden wasted opportunity?

well I don’t think think they had a chance to run the play again, since they ran thst play with under 2mins left. Not really a golden wasted opportunity when the Browns scored on the drive anyways. 

[buno67]

59 minutes ago, bruceb said:

I do not believe that there ever should be an only read.

You have to take advantage of what the D gives you.

And you have to see what that is before the ball is snapped.

I’m just saying, you calling baker out on a play that should only have a one read in a screen cause the blocking scheme can’t hold up. 
How could you have seen that before the ball is snap? You have no idea how the defense is going to react to the jet motion. That is something you see from the booth and try to go after later on in the game

59 minutes ago, bruceb said:

If he had scanned the D pre-snap he would have known that Hunt might be his best opportunity.

How? You have not idea what the defense might do with that motion right off the snap. You run that to keep the backside contain and set up future potential plays. You have no idea how they are going to match up or how they rotated to cover Hunt after they snap the ball. 

 

59 minutes ago, bruceb said:

He could have glanced right during his drop and then locked on the left.

So you want him on a play where he has very limited time because of the screen blocking scheme to cheat his read progression to possibly see if Hunt might come open? Also if baker lookEd right away like you say, it wouldn’t have been there and now he is late looking to Jarvis and might have to just settle dumping off to Chubb. 
 

This is kind Of mind boggling what you are expecting on a play like that. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by buno67

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, candyman93 said:

Get Baker 2 OT’s and then judge him.

 

He will have the best possible personnel a QB can ask for on offense.

We'll see what OBJ looks like this year. Landry is good but he is a short possession receiver that isn't a burner or even particularly quick. Good against a LB no doubt but all receivers should be. We have no idea who any of our other receivers will be. We have a great RB room. Njoku at T.E. which is okay but one dimensional. They probably won't want him on the field much in the run game so he just turns into a tell. Two solid starters on the line. If we get two capable tackles that will surely help but we won't be the Cowboys on the line where we can just lean on them.

While I was all in before last year thinking our offense would look like the Chiefs because we were a matchup nightmare, I was very wrong. Teams were able to double OBJ without anyone else doing much. Then later in the year they could single OBJ without him doing anything, like beating his one on one matchup with any regularity.

We dropped a lot of balls. We tipped a lot of balls. Defenses were more aggressive to the ball than we were. The run blocking wasn't even good, Chubb was just that good that he turned 2 yard carries into 8. Hunt had by far his lowest yards per carry in his career as a change of pace guy and that shouldn't happen. He did always give effort there just wasn't much there. Baker wasn't as good with all the pressure that was there as he was the year before with the wrinkles that we threw in that year.

I would say overall the supporting cast last year on offense was below average. RB was elite. Line was garbage. WR was maybe average. T.E. was nothing. QB was meh.

Now I will say two decent tackles can possibly make everyone look better. Coaching also could do that. Right now we don't know anything and it may look just as bad as it did last year. I prefer not to think that way but last year scares me now. I'd certainly like to see more consistent effort from our receivers, watch the RBs and how they always show up for a play. We need that from everyone, every week.

tldr: We ain't all that on offense. If we were it would have looked better last year.

[candyman93]

14 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

tldr: We ain't all that on offense. If we were it would have looked better last year.

Josh Allen is out playing Baker and doesn’t have the help he does. 
 

If Darnold also outplays Baker, there’s no excuses.

[buno67]

@Thomas5737 you liked the idea of being like KC in your post above. Yeah KC as amazing talent but they also have one hell of an offense scheme that truly knows how to properly utilize that talent. Last year Freddie and Monken had no idea how to use the talent the team had. Like Freddie refused to use the schemes and packages that Baler excelled in. To me that is just bad coaching right there. Gotta have hope that the Nerds will understand how to properly utilize schemes and personnel groupings to Bakers benefits. The offense still has potential To be devastating but gotta know how to properly utilize the pieces. Freddie for some reason Thought to have an explosive offense he had to run a four or five wide receiver sets. Pretty sure Stef and the Vikings ran a lot of 2 WR personnel packages last year and had a top tier offense. 

[buno67]

7 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Josh Allen is out playing Baker and doesn’t have the help he does. 
 

If Darnold also outplays Baker, there’s no excuses.

I would say Allen was out in a lot favorable positions. He had a top5 defenses to rely on and the Bills ran the ball the 6th most times in the NFL. Allen wasn’t asked to lead the team, he was asked to not F’ it up. That should have been the browns identity as well but Freddie was a moron. 

[BrownLeader]

8 hours ago, buno67 said:

by the way, that play/pass was predetermined by the coaches. You have only two outside WRs, who are going vertical right away, mainly to get the corners out of there. They have a TE who is doing nothing but blocking. The RB is supposed to try and sell a run fake. So there are literally no other passing options on that play. So I dont know how you can say that was baker predetermining the throw himself. Also bakers eyes arent there to watch the backside 3tech, or you could assume that Bit, the best lineman on the team could properly seal him off. Hell that game was prolly one of Bits worst, or at least that first quarter was one of the worst quarters of his career because not only did his bad blocking lead to that pick, he also had the bad block that lead to him getting blown up, which result in him kicking the ball out of Chubbs hands.

Yes an inside shovel was called to Landry. Baker's predetermining because he's going to execute it regardless of what's happening around him.... He's not actually looking at what's happening. The DE is crashing into the exact spot Landry's supposed to occupy before he tosses it. Baker literally tossed the ball into the DE's face. It's what he was doing all year...not actually reading coverage post snap. The business decision INT to Landry  is the same thing. He's not reading Landry's running a short slant into a double. It's just..this is where I'm going.

8 hours ago, buno67 said:

shouldn't the only read have been the screen to Chubb? because the blocking is being based on that. You literally have everyone playing towards or from the boundary side. You have Hunt going across the formation and running to the field side. He would have had to abandon his read/keys or blown through them to get to Hunt. With that play coming off of screen blocking, he is never going to make his way to Hunt because the blocking was never going to hold up. He should have never seen Hunt immediately cause his eyes should have never been over there. You can tell cause after the little fake, Baker gets his head right back to the boundary side.  So easy to criticize, when we literally have no idea what he is being told to do or being told to look at. 

Also you can say he is listening to the coaches because it seems like Landry was set up to get open in that area with a route by OBJ that seemed to free him up. He could have easily been told, look at Jarvis, if he has positioning lay the ball in there which he did, the DB never had the position to make a great play on the ball.  or if Jarvis doesnt get open, get the ball out to chubb who will have blocking, for a safe dump off. 

To your point, it's tough to say what's 1, 2, 3 there. But Kitchen's was using Hunt as a receiving option quite a bit when he got back. Hunt's in motion and at the snap and it's clear he's coming free. If Baker didn't have the habit of zeroing in on a guy, regardless of the coverage all year, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt....but he doesn't get it.

8 hours ago, Rod Johnson said:

I'm not taking anything away from the points you're making, but I'd honestly want to know who else runs a screen pass off play action to the guy you're throwing a screen to?  I think that play might have been busted or else just terrible design (or I'm missing the part where that's actually a play?)

That play makes no sense to me.  Why would you fake a handoff to the same side as your pulling olinemen?  Then throw to the guy you brought the D's attention to in the first place?

I think the fake is to Hunt in motion.

Edited March 2, 2020 by BrownLeader

[Thomas5737]

3 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Josh Allen is out playing Baker and doesn’t have the help he does. .

Well Baker had a bad year (and still had better completion percentage, yards per attempt, total yards, TD...) but as passers it still isn't close watching them. Allen has a large number of just mind blowing bad throws. Lamar Jackson was a lot better last year with those, partly because no one ever pressured him, but he still had more of those throws than Baker. Take away their legs and put them under center in Cleveland last year and we're looking at historically bad performances. So while as football players Lamar certainly and Allen maybe have an edge on Baker right now neither are close as passers. There isn't a throw Lamar can make that any other QB couldn't make with the same opportunity. His legs give him that opportunity so he gets credit but but on arm alone neither are top 25 imo.

[Rod Johnson]

3 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Yes an inside shovel was called to Landry. Baker's predetermining because he's going to execute it regardless of what's happening around him.... He's not actually looking at what's happening. The DE is crashing into the exact spot Landry's supposed to occupy before he tosses it. Baker literally tossed the ball into the DE's face. It's what he was doing all year...not actually reading coverage post snap. The business decision INT to Landry  is the same thing. He's not reading Landry's running a short slant into a double. It's just..this is where I'm going.

To your point, it's tough to say what's 1, 2, 3 there. But Kitchen's was using Hunt as a receiving option quite a bit when he got back. Hunt's in motion and at the snap and it's clear he's coming free. If Baker didn't have the habit of zeroing in on a guy, regardless of the coverage all year, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt....but he doesn't get it.

I think the fake is to Hunt in motion.

He goes past Hunt then extends the ball towards Chubb.

The guy who I believe is supposed to be covering Hunt runs into his own player (who I think is covering our TE, sees him blocking and delay bltizes) allowing Hunt to be wide open.

I think, or they could have been in some zone and the guy who got knocked down had the flats.  Just a bizarre play all around.  I think Hunt is a supposed to be a decoy though.  But I think it is in fact a broken play because what the offensive line is doing doesn't match up with the play action, and Chubb being 2 feet away from the fake handoff doesnt mean much when we ran so many lazy, terrible play action fakes that looked like that even when they were intentional.

It's almost like it worked because it was so stupid and broken the Browns confounded the defense.

Not really mad at Mayfield for putting the ball where only Landry could get it when crap hit the fan and he has 1 second to make a decision.  That falls incomplete and it's not as bad as taking the sack or turning it over.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Rod Johnson

[braylon]

Josh Allen isn't outplaying Baker. 

[MWil23]

Things I want to see offensively in 2020 from a sheer schematic point of view:

1. Flood concepts and allowing Baker to read 1/2 of the field and a force defender vs. 1/2 high look. Easy money with his solid accuracy and arm strength.

2. Throw that RPO garbage in the trash can as "staple points" of the offense. Our offense should be predicated on a power running game with play-action intermediate/deep passes and flood concepts on the quick game.

3. Utilize more "no huddle" and up tempo TO the line of scrimmage, and then we can take our time once the personnel groupings are set. More motions, nuance with the same personnel (Landry/OBJ can move in and out of the slot, Njoku can move to the slot or out wide, Hunt and Chubb can move in and out of the backfield, etc.). No huddle DOES NOT HAVE TO EQUAL hurry up.

These are things that I can sit on my couch on a Sunday and figure out that have zero to do with game-planning that will instantly improve this offense as a whole, Baker's efficiency, and drastically cut down on turnovers.

Mixing/Matching and constant subbing is the most overrated thing in sports (offensively). Teams that are able to create mismatches often do it due to hybrid players/those that are able to stay on the field and move to multiple looks while making the defense pick and choose whether or not to stay in a base look defense or move big/little in personnel.