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BrownLeader

Pick a Bust - 2020

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On 3/3/2020 at 1:17 PM, Ragnarok said:

Hurts got benched for Tua in the NCG against UGA.  Then the next year, Tua got benched for Hurts in the NCG against Clemson.

Tua got benched in 2018 SEC Championship game against Geogia. Terrible half and rolled a ankle if I remember correctly 

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On 3/11/2020 at 3:04 AM, vikes635 said:

QB. Joe Burrow (small hands, avg mobility-accuracy- and arm strength) If he can't read defenses at the next level as fast as he was able to this year in college he could be disappointing. Also lets face it, if he ends up being a bangle odds do not bode well for him.

RB.  Zack Moss (Tough RB that likes to play through injuries but does this cause him to be dinged up to often?)

WR. Laviska Shenault ( This is tuff for me to say because I really like this kid but again injuries could be a concern here.)

TE Albert Okwuegbunam ( Honestly just don't know if I love any TE's this year and currently have this kid ranked number 1)

OT Josh Jones ( I seem to have him ranked lower than anyone else on this forum so why not pick him) #8 OT btw 1st rnd grade still

IOL Nick Harris ( Might not be nasty enough for the trenches)

IDL Derrick Brown ( I'm on an island thinking this kid is number 2 behind Kinlaw so...)

Edge Marlon Davidson ( I just didn't see dominate pass rush ability)

LB Patrick Queen ( due to lack of LB talent I believe Queen will be drafted higher than he is valued. His ability to finish tackles is a concern of mine)

CB Treven Diggs ( I currently have him ranked 6th and dropping, not sure if this one qualifies for the Q though because Brown has him like 13 or something)

S Ashtyn Davis ( Not sure if he will produce as a second round talent)

 

I agree with a lot of this outside of Burrow.  He does not have average mobility or accuracy.  He is surprisingly athletic in the pocket and is very accurate throwing the football, sure his arm is not a cannon but with his pin point accuracy it does not really matter.

 

I agree with Shenault, injury stuff is an issue for sure and his athletic ability is overrated as is his YAC ability.  Jones I also agree is getting a little too much hype but with the need for OTs he will be drafted higher than he should.  Harris is nasty enough, he might not be big enough, seems to be very stout and stocky for a center not much length or size but if in a zone based scheme should do ok.  Queen I also feel is being a little overrated and wish he had more consistent production in college outside of this past year.  Diggs I also am not super high on, wish he was more physical and had more experience at the position which he does not, and for having such fine ball skills he should have had more INTs I feel.  Ashtyn Davis I have never been a huge fan of, Moss is a good player and as long as he is not a 2nd round pick I think he could be a great value 3rd or 4th round and his consistency is impressive an dhe can do a little of everything.  

Okwuegbunam is still very raw, but athletically he is really interesting and if in a run based system might do a lot better with in line play action and the bootleg game.  Was in a spread passing offense most of the time and not sure he is best in that situation for his size.

Derrick Brown on the field this year was a monster, sure did not work out great at the combine but the dude is productive and loves the game.  I would take him over Dexter Lawrence last year but true NTs are not as valued now as they once were.  Davidson I think would be just fine as a 3/4 DE or a 4/3 DT, was basically a 4/3 DE in college which is not ideally his best place but had a great senior year and I thought he was very productive, he is a good athlete for his size.  

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On 3/11/2020 at 4:04 AM, vikes635 said:

IDL Derrick Brown ( I'm on an island thinking this kid is number 2 behind Kinlaw so...)

 

I'm with you on that island.

Brown just doesn't profile to me as the type of defensive lineman that is a top 5 prospect. His athletic testing is indicative of who I saw on the field: a very stiff but very strong 0/1 technique who will be limited as a pass rusher.

I don't think this type of player can't ever go in the top 5, but I don't even see him as a better prospect than Vita Vea, who is probably the strongest player I've ever seen in college and the NFL. Besides being stronger, Vea is also more athletic and provides more pass-rush upside.

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8 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I'm with you on that island.

Brown just doesn't profile to me as the type of defensive lineman that is a top 5 prospect. His athletic testing is indicative of who I saw on the field: a very stiff but very strong 0/1 technique who will be limited as a pass rusher.

I don't think this type of player can't ever go in the top 5, but I don't even see him as a better prospect than Vita Vea, who is probably the strongest player I've ever seen in college and the NFL. Besides being stronger, Vea is also more athletic and provides more pass-rush upside.

Granted Derrick Brown had one more season but that freshman year he did not play much or get that many stats.  And Derrick Brown clearly played better competition in college than Vita Vea did out West.  Looking at them this one they are pretty similar and if anything Brown was way more productive as a tackler and getting into the backfield.  

 

 

Derrick Brown 6-5 326, 34 1/4" arms, 9" hands, 5.16, 28 bench

170 tackles, 33 TFL, 12.5 sacks, 8 PD, 5 FF

 

 

Vita Vea 6-4 347, 32 5/8" arms, 10" hands, 5.1, 41 bench

99 tackles, 15 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 5 PD, 2 FF

 

 

Derrick Brown actually took part in all the athletic drills at the combine where Vita did not so who knows what Vea's vertical, broad jump, 3 cone, or shuttle would have looked like.  Granted Vea is heavier than Brown, but people praised him for running a 5.11, and Derrick Brown runs a 5.16 now and everyone says he sucks.  The bench number is great no doubt for Vea, but he does have shorter arms than Derrick Brown which does matter in the bench.  

 

Now true that the NT position is not as valuable as it once was considered, when teams get guys later in the draft that do better than more highly drafted big men.  So if Derrick Brown drops it is for that reason not because he cannot play or is not athletic enough.  Who gives a crap how he performs in a track competition at the combine, he is a great athlete for his size and easily had the best season of any DT in the nation last year.

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At the risk of nitpicking, I would categorize Shenault more along the line of durability concern than injury concerns.  To me, injury concerns are things like an ACL tear, Achilles injury, concussion history, structural issue like Tua has with his hip — Shenault has had none of those.

He was overused by Colorado in 2018 and paid the price for it in 2019; I think he wore down physically.  I would have no issue drafting him, but I wouldn’t do idiotic things like running him out of the wildcat on the goal line like Colorado was doing.

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56 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Snip

I saw Vea as a player who simply dominated with his strength every opponent he faced unlike any other college player I've seen. I don't knock players for not playing in the SEC. Plus, my evaluation held true in the NFL where Vea rag-dolls offensive lineman and resets the line of scrimmage more than any defensive lineman I've watched.

My evaluation on Brown is based on what I saw on the broadcast tape. Brown is more of an uphill-downhill player who loses strength the more lateral he becomes, which is of particular importance in the NFL with the proliferation of stretch zone. I don't think Brown will bust, but I simply don't see the type of player who should be going top 5. To me, he's more of a top 10-15 prospect. I know I'm getting a very good run defender, but I'm not counting on him being a regular contributor against the pass.

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Love is my obvious choice bc I have no clue what people see in him aside from physical attributes. His head and choices are terrible and I value that a lot at that position.

My less known is Gross-Matos. I don't get the first round grade at all. Not even a little bit. 

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I don't know if Jordan Love can get called a bust, he wont go in the first round, I doubt in the second either, he's Will Grier, picked up later on, "oh yeah maybe he'll be a future backup or starter, who knows lol lets give him a chance"

Justin Huebert though I think will go in the first round to some team that really, really shouldn't pick him. He's going to be a huge bust. I feel it in my BONES

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