Post Combine Thoughts

[Just Want A Title]

After reading about the combine results, a number of things have stood out to me:

1.  Isaiah Simmons might just be worth a top 5 pick.  He might be the closest thing to Brian Urlacher since, well, Brian Urlacher.  He could be an eraser covering TEs and RBs.  He is a solid blitzer, a good tackler and could even drop back into the secondary.  I don't know where he will end up but he could be scary good.

2.  There are some really good OL in this draft.  Becton and Wirfs had monster workouts and have great tape.  Ezra Cleveland is a solid prospect also.  Andrew Thomas looks like an instant starter at RT.

3.  For all of the talk about the depth at WR and OT, there also seems to be a lot of good CBs and S prospects.

4.  Some people were put off by the combine numbers for Derrick Brown.  Put in the tape.  That guy is a beast.

5.  That said, Javon Kinlaw isn't far behind Derrick Brown.  

6.  The depth at WR will really help the Lions.  Amendola is 35 and Marvin Jones is 30.  Hockenson and Golladay have a great future but we need another young WR.  

7.  It might turn out to be a good thing we drafted Hockenson last year.  This group of TEs has some solid prospects but not a lot of high-end talent.

8.  If we want a quality DT, we better get someone in Rounds 1 or 2.  There seems to be a drop-off after that.

Thoughts?

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

With his combination of great tape and elite combine numbers, Simmons is an undeniable stud. Although having him would be great, him being considered in the top 5 might be even better for us. Although I'd love to have him, it may help us to still land Okudah or Brown after a trade down.

I disagree about Becton's tape: the guy struggled immensely as a pass-protector. Sure, he's just raw in that area, but that has to be a concern for any team considering him in the top 10.

My favorite combine workout award goes to Epenesa. I absolutely love him as a football player, and I think he'd be a great fit for this defense: DE on early downs, then shifts inside on passing downs. It was shown that his poor 40 yard dash start cost him .41 seconds, which is more of a indication that he isn't good at running the 40 yard dash. He's definitely not a slow football player. I think he'll be a guy that'll be a team captain and steady 8-10 sack player for the next 10 years.

I'm starting to think that my dream scenario is to trade down with the Raiders and acquire picks #12, #19 and a future 1st, then take Jeudy or Lamb at #12 and Epenesa at #19.

[BarryTheBest]

39 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

With his combination of great tape and elite combine numbers, Simmons is an undeniable stud. Although having him would be great, him being considered in the top 5 might be even better for us. Although I'd love to have him, it may help us to still land Okudah or Brown after a trade down.

I disagree about Becton's tape: the guy struggled immensely as a pass-protector. Sure, he's just raw in that area, but that has to be a concern for any team considering him in the top 10.

My favorite combine workout award goes to Epenesa. I absolutely love him as a football player, and I think he'd be a great fit for this defense: DE on early downs, then shifts inside on passing downs. It was shown that his poor 40 yard dash start cost him .41 seconds, which is more of a indication that he isn't good at running the 40 yard dash. He's definitely not a slow football player. I think he'll be a guy that'll be a team captain and steady 8-10 sack player for the next 10 years.

I'm starting to think that my dream scenario is to trade down with the Raiders and acquire picks #12, #19 and a future 1st, then take Jeudy or Lamb at #12 and Epenesa at #19.

I would be down for that scenario. 

Otherwise, if we stay at 3, we will take Simmons, I can just feel it. His tape plus workout combined with Patricia' s affinity for linebackers makes this the perfect storm. Add in that none of our linebackers can cover and Simmons can also play safety in in our base set, and there you go.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

27 minutes ago, BarryTheBest said:

I would be down for that scenario. 

Otherwise, if we stay at 3, we will take Simmons, I can just feel it. His tape plus workout combined with Patricia' s affinity for linebackers makes this the perfect storm. Add in that none of our linebackers can cover and Simmons can also play safety in in our base set, and there you go.

That's very true. It seems more and more a possibility.

The Redskins are putting a lot out there about Tua, which likely means that they're looking to trade down. Do you think Quinn and Patricia would take Simmons over Young?

[Lions017]

I am very confident that the Lions can get what they need if they trade down with Miami. It really looks like we will either be able to stay put at 3 and take Young or trade down to 5 and get one of Okudah/Simmons. 

[Sllim Pickens]

Simmons workout was great for us.  His tape and workouts both look like a top 3 player and hopefully that can sway the Redskins to trade down and us to grab Young.  I also am more on board with us taking Simmons although I am always skeptical of guys that can play multiple positions.  I am guessing he is more of a LB for us than a S, but dont want him to turn out like the other combine warriors without a true position. 

[Sllim Pickens]

8 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

With his combination of great tape and elite combine numbers, Simmons is an undeniable stud. Although having him would be great, him being considered in the top 5 might be even better for us. Although I'd love to have him, it may help us to still land Okudah or Brown after a trade down.

I disagree about Becton's tape: the guy struggled immensely as a pass-protector. Sure, he's just raw in that area, but that has to be a concern for any team considering him in the top 10.

My favorite combine workout award goes to Epenesa. I absolutely love him as a football player, and I think he'd be a great fit for this defense: DE on early downs, then shifts inside on passing downs. It was shown that his poor 40 yard dash start cost him .41 seconds, which is more of a indication that he isn't good at running the 40 yard dash. He's definitely not a slow football player. I think he'll be a guy that'll be a team captain and steady 8-10 sack player for the next 10 years.

I'm starting to think that my dream scenario is to trade down with the Raiders and acquire picks #12, #19 and a future 1st, then take Jeudy or Lamb at #12 and Epenesa at #19.

I dont think Epenesa makes it to 19.  People love pass rushers and he is the second best in this draft.  I am guessing we would need to take him at 12, and he might not be available then either. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

3 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I dont think Epenesa makes it to 19.  People love pass rushers and he is the second best in this draft.  I am guessing we would need to take him at 12, and he might not be available then either. 

I don't disagree, although I've heard some claim that his underwhelming combine showing should drop him out of the first round completely. I obviously disagree with this, but some really tend to overreact from combine numbers.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

43 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I dont think Epenesa makes it to 19.  People love pass rushers and he is the second best in this draft.  I am guessing we would need to take him at 12, and he might not be available then either. 

Actually, based on what we know after the combine, I'd wager that Epenesa will absolutely be available after pick 12. It's believed that 3 QBs and 3 OTs could be taken in the first 12. Considering other talent available (Young, Okudah, Simmons, Brown, Jeudy, Lamb, etc.), I think Epenesa will make it past 12.

[BarryTheBest]

7 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

That's very true. It seems more and more a possibility.

The Redskins are putting a lot out there about Tua, which likely means that they're looking to trade down. Do you think Quinn and Patricia would take Simmons over Young?

My OP was predicated on Washington taking Young at 2. If Young some how fell to us, I think the choice between the 2 would cause us to have a long conversation in our war room. I would hope we took Young in that scenario, but wouldn't be surprised at all if Simmons was still the pick. 

[BarryTheBest]

1 hour ago, Sllim Pickens said:

Simmons workout was great for us.  His tape and workouts both look like a top 3 player and hopefully that can sway the Redskins to trade down and us to grab Young.  I also am more on board with us taking Simmons although I am always skeptical of guys that can play multiple positions.  I am guessing he is more of a LB for us than a S, but dont want him to turn out like the other combine warriors without a true position. 

You make good points. My only counter to this is that Simmons has not only the insane workout, but all the production in a Power 5 School that was in the hunt for the National Championship, along with unquestionable character. I think the combine was really icing on the cake... I think I want us to take him at 3, provided Young goes at 2.

Edited March 3, 2020 by BarryTheBest

[LionArkie]

At 3, I would be fine with Okudah, Simmons, and Tua.  Obviously Young if he falls, but I'm going to pretend he doesn't.

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, BarryTheBest said:

You make good points. My only counter to this is that Simmons has not only the insane workout, but all the production in a Power 5 School that was in the hunt for the National Championship, along with unquestionable character. I think the combine was really icing on the cake... I think I want us to take him at 3, provided Young goes at 2.

Taylor Mays had tape and a killer combine too, at a similar size.  Simmons is really small for a LB in our system.  I am not sure he is a full time S in the NFL. He excites me, but makes me nervous just because I hate the swiss army knife type players who are really good at a lot but not amazing at one thing.  

[Sllim Pickens]

1 hour ago, LionArkie said:

At 3, I would be fine with Okudah, Simmons, and Tua.  Obviously Young if he falls, but I'm going to pretend he doesn't.

This is pretty much how I feel.  I also like Brown, Kinlaw, Juedy, and perhaps the OTs if we drop down.  I really hope we can trade back to the 5-9 range and land one of these guys while taking in quite a few other picks. I can't say I love anyone other than Young at 3 that I would prefer over a trade down.  Even if Young is available I wouldn't mind dropping to 5 if it means getting one of Young, Okudah, Simmons.   

[Karnage84]

I think I'm all Okudah at #3/slight trade down or make a significant trade down for a ton of picks. We need help on the back end in a big way and this defense is built through the secondary. Okudah is the second best prospect other than Chase Young. He checks all of our boxes and there's a pretty solid chance that we'd get some extra draft capital + get him at #5 or #6. Sign me up. 

I am on the same page with Sllim regarding Simmons. Great workout and all. Dude is a beast. However, he's an off ball linebacker in our system. I'd take Malik Harrison in the 3rd or 4th round 100/100 times over Simmons at #3 or #5. He's 6'2, 247 with 10 1/4 arms. He had a 36" vert and the best 3 cone in the ILB group. He's good in coverage. If we add some help on the back end with a guy like Okudah and then throw in a guy who can actually cover at LB, we should be in good shape.