NYJets4716 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, canadianjetsfan said: Love the debate on the OT vs Wr draft pick. But for me the draft is the easier part. Almost every one of these players show traits that will make them NFL picks. But how many are NFL ready from day 1? The biggest problem I see is the inability to coach up these young players into contributors. Neither Rex or Bowles showed much ability on that front. This staff to me has already shown a better ability to develop players than we have had in a while. This is why I am actually excited about the future. It is also why we won’t be doing as much in Free Agency as we have in the past. Our coaching staff wants and has the ability to grow our own players. They seem to have a plan and are identifying players that fit that plan. Which will also be true of the players we draft. It is reason for excitement and is the way good teams are built. OT/WR don’t care, just get a player that will strive in the system that is being created for the Jets. That is true, but how many player leave the Jets and end up being good elsewhere? A lot of it is our scouting department was just bad and took bad players. But this is a brand new scouting department and GM, so hopefully they can select better players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, DowNY said: So you’re saying Tyreke Hill nor Travis Kelce would be 1st round picks knowing what we know now about them? Of course they will be, but it's just a faulty way of thinking. The fact is there is no such thing as re-drafts. I live and think in the real world, not a fantasy one. If you asked the Chiefs if they thought Hill and Kelce would turn out to be elite they'd say of course not, but they drafted them because they felt they would be good players. On the flip side, that's like saying "Corey Davis wouldn't go in round 1 in a re-draft." No ****. It all comes back to resource allocation and value. If we know the answers to the test (i.e. if we were capable of looking into the future and confidently say Henry Ruggs is going to be Tyreek Hill 2.0, while the tackles are going to turn out average) of course you're going to go with the sure thing. But last I checked we are not capable of looking into the future... yet Edited March 30, 2020 by jetskid007 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Bobby816 said: Seems like quarantine is eating away at him. Getting more and more argumentative by the day. I'm actually having a field day right now. I'm not being argumentative out of anger or malice, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these statements are I mean it in all respect and the memes are just for fun- not trying to insult anyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrade Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, KodiakThunder said: Better teams have done more with less lol. Truthfully a great QB can make mediocre WR's look like pro bowlers because of imprecible timing, ball placement, and touch.... we don't have a QB that can elevate his WR's. We need WR's that can elevate the QB. How would we know if Sam is good? He is on the run most of the time. Ask yourself, would Mahomes or any other great QB be even remotely as successful with an offense that Sam has had to work with? People complain about his deep ball accuracy. Of course it is going to be inaccurate because he knows he is going to hammered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KodiakThunder Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 minute ago, xrade said: How would we know if Sam is good? He is on the run most of the time. Ask yourself, would Mahomes or any other great QB be even remotely as successful with an offense that Sam has had to work with? People complain about his deep ball accuracy. Of course it is going to be inaccurate because he knows he is going to hammered. I believe you're taking me out of context. I said GREAT qb's, not a good QB. I'm talking about the Great Ones like Elway, Marino, brady, Manning, brees... those guys made their WR's look better then they were. We dont have one of those guys (at least not now), so we need more talent at WR cause as of now Darnold wont really elevate the play of his supporting cast the same way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrade Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, DowNY said: Idk, drafting for position over talent is just a weird plan. To have all 4 OTs above all WRs just because of position is weird. Be lucky if 2 out the 4 OTs become really good. And to panic as if the team didn’t just spend 2 weeks working on the OLine is weird too. What happens if Fant and Edoga are really good? We wasted a pick that could’ve helped Darnold now? You know that there’s more drafts right? And to think there’s no trade up scenarios for guys like Josh Jones, Austin Jackson or Ezra Cleveland. For all we know, Andrew Thomas can slide to the 20s and we make a trade back into the 1st. End up with Jeudy/Lamb/Ruggs & Thomas. Whats to say the WR will work out? Treadwell, Watkins, Corey Davis, Corey Coleman. I could go on, but you get the point. Of course this applies to all positions including OL but do not completely dismiss the potential for one of the big three receivers not living up to their draft status. The whole draft is a crapshoot that we have failed at for the last few years. I am willing to give JD a chance and dismiss "history" because JD was not a part of that "history." Of course I am also a long time Jet fan so, yeah, I expect failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KodiakThunder Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, xrade said: Whats to say the WR will work out? Treadwell, Watkins, Corey Davis, Corey Coleman. I could go on, but you get the point. Of course this applies to all positions including OL but do not completely dismiss the potential for one of the big three receivers not living up to their draft status. The whole draft is a crapshoot that we have failed at for the last few years. I am willing to give JD a chance and dismiss "history" because JD was not a part of that "history." Of course I am also a long time Jet fan so, yeah, I expect failure. "Sure things" are the higgest misnomer in the draft. Truth is, noone has a crystal ball. Anyone to caught up in their own projections are kidding themselves. Sure we all get lucky on some of the guys we liked throughout the years.... but, being on this site for 10 yrs now, I can tell you the majority of "fan favorites" prospects wind up vastly underperforming from what people think theyll achieve... And now que up the random posts about the one or two guys you liked that actually panned out. Casually forgetting all the guys we loved but became busts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrade Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 9 minutes ago, KodiakThunder said: I believe you're taking me out of context. I said GREAT qb's, not a good QB. I'm talking about the Great Ones like Elway, Marino, brady, Manning, brees... those guys made their WR's look better then they were. We dont have one of those guys (at least not now), so we need more talent at WR cause as of now Darnold wont really elevate the play of his supporting cast the same way... We need more talent almost everywhere. My point is that Sam MAY be elite but we have no way of knowing that. Look, if we a WR at 11 I will be good with that. We need some. I just believe having that franchise OT is more important at this moment in time. What if we get Ruggs? Do you think his full potential as a downfield threat is going to come to fruition with Sam trying to avoid getting laid out within 2-3 seconds? If RA was on KC, do you think he would have cracked 1000 yds? The gist of that question is too emphasize that Mahomes has the time to throw deep, we do not thus RA's speed was wasted on this team. I do love the debates we are engaging in. In the end, I think all of us would be thrilled if we have an improved OL with a 1st round tackle or an improved passing game with a top WR. Anything to make this team better so I can sit through a whole game and not change the channel to watch a cooking show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KodiakThunder Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Just now, xrade said: We need more talent almost everywhere. My point is that Sam MAY be elite but we have no way of knowing that. Look, if we a WR at 11 I will be good with that. We need some. I just believe having that franchise OT is more important at this moment in time. What if we get Ruggs? Do you think his full potential as a downfield threat is going to come to fruition with Sam trying to avoid getting laid out within 2-3 seconds? If RA was on KC, do you think he would have cracked 1000 yds? The gist of that question is too emphasize that Mahomes has the time to throw deep, we do not thus RA's speed was wasted on this team. I do love the debates we are engaging in. In the end, I think all of us would be thrilled if we have an improved OL with a 1st round tackle or an improved passing game with a top WR. Anything to make this team better so I can sit through a whole game and not change the channel to watch a cooking show. Sam is not elite. Can he be? Sure. But he has not elevated the play of the guys around him. That's the difference between a good QB and an elite QB. IMO. But yes, more talent may help him eventually become elite as he gets comfortable in this offense and with his coaches ect... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrade Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Just now, KodiakThunder said: Sam is not elite. Can he be? Sure. But he has not elevated the play of the guys around him. That's the difference between a good QB and an elite QB. IMO. But yes, more talent may help him eventually become elite as he gets comfortable in this offense and with his coaches ect... Agreed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJerseypaint Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 55 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said: You put Tennessee, Minnesota, and San Fran as average to meh QBs but Josh Allen as Good? Tannehill, Cousins, and Jimmy were much better than Allen. Yeah Allen is awesome if you like having your QB live around 45-50% of his passes being completed. The Bills basically played for Allen to not lose them games. You're missing the forest through the trees. I didn't count Josh as a great QB, so whether you think he's good or average doesn't change my conclusion. But for argument's sake, I think his athleticism puts him ahead of the other guys. Plus he has the worst supporting case of those three; I think Diggs is going to really help him light it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrade Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said: You're missing the forest through the trees. I didn't count Josh as a great QB, so whether you think he's good or average doesn't change my conclusion. But for argument's sake, I think his athleticism puts him ahead of the other guys. Plus he has the worst supporting case of those three; I think Diggs is going to really help him light it up. I agree that Diggs may very well light it up in Buffalo. I believe that because they have a competent to good OL and will give Diggs the time to run his route and Allen the time to hit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Protection is going to do more for Sam than weapons will IMO. His splits when under pressure vs a clean pocket He had an 81.7 adjusted completion percentage in 2019 with a clean pocket. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJC33 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Without trading for Trent (I know, unlikely) I'd prefer to go OT at 11. WE STILL HAVE ARGUABLY THE WORST TACKLE TANDEM IN THE LEAGUE. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby816 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, KodiakThunder said: Sam is not elite. Can he be? Sure. But he has not elevated the play of the guys around him. That's the difference between a good QB and an elite QB. IMO. But yes, more talent may help him eventually become elite as he gets comfortable in this offense and with his coaches ect... Sams not even arguably good yet. Never mind great. I think he will be a franchise QB “IF” we get him talent. We haven’t done that. So it’s still hard to say. And yes I think early in a players career if you don’t give them weapons to work with it can make or break them. We saw that as jets fans with Sanchez. We thought he was legit and got rid of everyone around him and watched him sink. We have to get Darnold weapons to last with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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