Mizter_Clean10 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Best thing about this thread is any predictions or opinion @Bearerofnews has or makes ends up completely wrong. I mean how bout them Dolphins eh @Bearerofnews? Or the 9-7 Chiefs? All your opinion does is cement the fact that Mahomes is elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 54 minutes ago, Mizter_Clean10 said: Best thing about this thread is any predictions or opinion @Bearerofnews has or makes ends up completely wrong. I mean how bout them Dolphins eh @Bearerofnews? Or the 9-7 Chiefs? All your opinion does is cement the fact that Mahomes is elite. This isnt a prediction though. So yeah, that was weird. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: The onus is never on the one who makes the initial statement. A statement ive proven as much as possibly can be proven with the amount of tangible data that can be used to prove a hypotheses; such as Mahomes greatly benefits, as do his stats from being with Reid and being in KC's system. I dont think Mahomes is a system qb per say. But i know, as much as possible, without actually examining results from him playing in all 32 offenses... that he wouldn't produce the level he does without Reid and outside KC's offense. Someone tell me, what would be sufficient proof... outside the stuff i provided and the basic prowess of the current landscape of the NFL, the logical ability to know that Reid makes QBs better and as a byproduct of better, that means greater statistics. That Reid has built a machine in that offense with very specific personnel, a offense that didnt skip a beat with Matt Moore... Matt freeekin Moore. An offense that greatly benefits qb's production. I think we all know this. So either you guys are being ignorant by proxy, trending in a childish mob mentality to stake a stance in something you guys have no real conviction in, or just dislike me enough to keep up these tireless charades. I believe without an all time statistical start to his career, Mahomes wouldnt be as revered as he is, stature wise. If he had lessor stats, with the same exceptional off design adhoc plays... he'd be viewed as Stafford or slightly better. But with those all wordly stats, with the level of play and now the team results, it creates a blind level of credit that allll goes to Mahomes. When thats just not an accurate assessment. Also Mahomes is not void of criticism, so lets stop acting like he is. No player is, unless you can say with a straight face they are perfect. I mean yeah if every player ever had different stats they would be perceived different because your stats are literally your production on the field. you change the production you're a different player. This entire line of argument is like the Kurt Warner criticism. "O well he had all this talent around him." He still produced at an MVP level. A QB still needs to execute when surrounded by talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: The onus is never on the one who makes the initial statement. Yes, it is. What you're trying to create here is literally called the burden of proof logical fallacy. Or called shifting the burden of proof. "Onus probandi incumbit ei qui dicit, non ei qui negat." Means the burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, not on the person who denies. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 On 3/6/2020 at 7:01 PM, Yin-Yang said: Mahomes is a good quarterback Definitely in the top 32 for starting QBs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefs_5627 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 "I believe without an all time statistical start to his career, Mahomes wouldnt be as revered as he is, stature wise. If he had lessor stats, with the same exceptional off design adhoc plays... he'd be viewed as Stafford or slightly better." Bruh... 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦 So if Mahomes didn't play as well to start his career he wouldn't be considered as good as he is? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? Nobody really takes you seriously for things like this. You're bias, whether you admit it or not and use any tiny little sliver of hope, the stupid agg% stat you decided your crusade on, to try and convince yourself Pat isn't as good as he is cuz you know its your team that's gonna be playing in the West with him. You show up in every Mahomes/Chiefs thread with your little digs and always get ran outta them. Don't know why you bother at this point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Definitely in the top 32 for starting QBs. Not sure about that anymore. - System QB - Smallish hands - Sounds like a cartoon character - Might actually be Sara Gilbert - Wasn’t even the first QB drafted in his class - Might get injured The list goes on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhorse Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I would prefer to listen to System of a First Down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Malik said: I mean yeah if every player ever had different stats they would be perceived different because your stats are literally your production on the field. you change the production you're a different player. This entire line of argument is like the Kurt Warner criticism. "O well he had all this talent around him." He still produced at an MVP level. A QB still needs to execute when surrounded by talent. Warner kinda proved his worth by doing it on 2 diff teams, with diff coaches and diff personnel. When a coach and the offense so heavily contribute. Its like putting a RB behind the best oline by far and nothing thinking their is an imbalance in production vs all the other rbs who arent behind the same oline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said: "I believe without an all time statistical start to his career, Mahomes wouldnt be as revered as he is, stature wise. If he had lessor stats, with the same exceptional off design adhoc plays... he'd be viewed as Stafford or slightly better." Way to try and partially quote to recreate the narrative. His all time statistically start is heavily aided by the coach, system and personnel ergo in a different situation he most likely wouldn't have the same stats and wouldnt get the same praise. Quote Bruh... 🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦🤦 So if Mahomes didn't play as well to start his career he wouldn't be considered as good as he is? Do you realize how dumb that sounds? Nobody really takes you seriously for things like this. You're bias, whether you admit it or not and use any tiny little sliver of hope, the stupid agg% stat you decided your crusade on, to try and convince yourself Pat isn't as good as he is cuz you know its your team that's gonna be playing in the West with him. You show up in every Mahomes/Chiefs thread with your little digs and always get ran outta them. Don't know why you bother at this point. 1. Again, stop simplifying things to try and gain something. You know exactly what i said. 2. For someone no one takes seriously... i sure got alot of dudes engaged.. rather than ignoring. I usually ignore something i dont take serious. 3. Agg% is a very telling stat. It's why it's considered a NEXT GEN STAT and its not a basic stat that can be manipulated. That stat is a segway to explain standard stats some players have. 4. I used to be adamant about the hype Rodgers used to get. Not here, because when I joined here, people got off the Rodgers hype train and everyone now is on the same boat as me.. 3 years LATER. 5. If the story was Mahomes is currently the best qb and has had an amazing start to a promising career, id leave it alone. When the story is Mahomes is arguably the greatest qb ever, is generational talent, will dominate the NFL for 10 years and all this silly hyperbolic fanboy garbage that gets recycled every 2 years for new players.... im going to kindly step in and show the error of your ways. That goes for that casual rams fans who started this thread and anyone else who utters that garbage. When i indulge in that silly fanboy rhetoric, like i have for T. Lawerence, alot of it is tongue-in-cheek. Sometime, yes im guilty of getting carried away with the hyperbole and lose levity in it's sincerity or genunity. So im guilty as well.. but when i get called out on it, i accept it. When people on here do it for Mahomes, they are all in like a blinded lusting teen. There should be acceptable levels to this and if im the only one willing to speak out... then bruh, im not a hater..... im a pioneer... im a freaking hero of sorts. Edited March 10, 2020 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 @Bearerofnews said he was the second best QB behind wilson, but then also says he is a system qb. which is it? You cant even make up your own mind. you are teetering into the ignore levels of obtuseness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mizter_Clean10 Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: This isnt a prediction though. So yeah, that was weird. But it’s definitely an opinion so not that weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 13 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: Mahomes greatly benefits, as do his stats from being with Reid and being in KC's system. I dont think Mahomes is a system qb per say. But i know, as much as possible, without actually examining results from him playing in all 32 offenses... that he wouldn't produce the level he does without Reid and outside KC's offense. This isn’t really an outlandish opinion, to be honest. I would agree with you. But the thing you don’t seem to understand is that you can be the best QB in the league, and still be in a system (or on a team) that benefits you. That’s football; it’s a team game. Tom Brady has benefitted for the last 20 years. Russell Wilson benefits from the system he’s in. Drew Brees benefits from the system he’s in. This isn’t something that only applies to Mahomes, you just seem to be focused in on him because you don’t like him. Would he put up 50 TDs if he was drafted by Cincinnati? I doubt it. Would he still be very arguably the leagues best QB? Absolutely. He’d still be putting up great numbers and showcasing his talent (which you seem to undervalue and attribute way too much to Andy Reid). I’ll say this, Mahomes’ potential is pretty much being maximized (in KC), and that’s not something you can say about every QB. But, Mahomes’ potential is greater than any of his peers. So - all things being equal situation/system wise - I’m still taking Mahomes. I mean, if you were to reduce every NFL QB to a prospect, not tied to any team or system, who would you take over Mahomes talent-wise? And by talent I don’t mean just arm strength, I mean everything - the cerebral aspects (football acumen, processing, feel for the pocket, competitiveness, etc.), skill (touch, accuracy, anticipation, etc.) and the physical traits (cannon arm, mobility, etc.). The obvious answer is Mahomes. You could make a case for Russell Wilson, but even then there are aspects of Mahomes game that teeter in his favour and make the difference. I do get what you’re saying though, production and team results is usually the biggest slice of the “who’s-the-best-x-position” pie. But I still think you’re underrating Mahomes and overrating Reid’s system a tad too much. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 hours ago, N4L said: @Bearerofnews said he was the second best QB behind wilson, but then also says he is a system qb. which is it? You cant even make up your own mind. you are teetering into the ignore levels of obtuseness Didnt say he is a system qb. I think realistically, at worst he'd be top 5 in any offense. I said he benefits from his system and coach from a statistical production end, more than any other qb. Brady benefits more from an accomplishment or results standpoint. So, yes i can make up my mind. Some people just arent sharp at comprehending and let their emotions cloud the message. No one here will tell me the above is wrong or crazy. You dont see offenses with the speed KC has, the disguises, the route concepts, a head coach who is sitting on the bench reviewing footage with his qb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: Didnt say he is a system qb. I think realistically, at worst he'd be top 5 in any offense. I said he benefits from his system and coach from a statistical production end, more than any other qb. Brady benefits more from an accomplishment or results standpoint. So, yes i can make up my mind. Some people just arent sharp at comprehending and let their emotions cloud the message. No one here will tell me the above is wrong or crazy. You dont see offenses with the speed KC has, the disguises, the route concepts, a head coach who is sitting on the bench reviewing footage with his qb. You haven't said 'he is a system qb' but you've stated repeatedly that 'he benefits greatly from the system' 'he wouldn't be the same player without the system' etc etc which ya know... is the definition of a system qb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.