(Polls) Rank/Choose the Top Tackles & Joe Thomas Says Wirfs is a Guard

[big poppa pump]

1 minute ago, Mind Character said:

In the public draftnik media and scouting community, as well as non-public community it's clearly a consensus that Tristan Wirfs has top 2 if not 1 OLineman Traits and Potential based off those traits.

However, I don't think it's accurate to say that "many" of those people see him as OT1; OG1 probably. Most consensus is around Andrew Thomas and Jedrick WIlls Jr. as OT1/OL1 with the next larger group of opinions in terms of quality being those that see Mekhi Becton as either having the biggest upside or see him as OT1. 

Surprisingly even to me, the smallest group of opinion consensus based on all media, draft analyst, and draftnik hub reports seems to be evaluating Wirfs as OT1.

And the reason that is because more so than Wills, Thomas, or even Becton it takes evaluators more faith to believe that Wirfs will fix his Tackle issues in technique and feel at the next level. He's more of a projection than the rest in a lot of people's minds.

We'll know soon what people think of Wirfs as a Tackle, but I think he either goes top 10 as a Guard or he falls some b/c of his deficiencies at Tackle. We'll know soon enough.

I  think it has been said on here that if he turns into Sherff, Yanda (guys who came from Iowa and converted from T to G in the NFL) or on the same level as a Quenten Nelson, then he warrants the pick regardless of playing the G position.  That is...if he truly is unable to fix the issues he has to be a great LT.  Hence...why I don't mind the pick at 10.

Thomas is really the only guy that I think has the least amount of flags for the position.  He may have reached his ceiling, but that isn't too bad.

 

Becton's weight, and the fact that he failed his drug test are enough to give me pause

And Wills looks to take some plays off, which gives me the "lazy" vibe.  Don't know if that is truly the case, (that he is lazy) but it scares me.

[Mind Character]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s my opinion a guy plays guard when he doesn’t have the feet/athleticism to play tackle.  I’m not sure that really applies to Wirfs.

 

Let's throw away what we personally think on why a guy plays guard.

What are the reasons cited by expert opinions for why they see Wirfs as a Guard (See Below)?

----------------------------

Daniel Jeremiah, Former NFL Scout and NFL Draft Analyst

"Tristan Wirfs is interesting to me because when I first watched him I thought he'd be a Guard. He reminded me a little bit of Brandon Scherff when he was coming out. Very strong, very physical but I thought the term I use he'd be better off if he had two neighbors instead of one he needs to live in the middle of the street not on the end of the street. But you look at what the guy did at the combine I acknowledge he's a phenomenal raw athlete But he has things he has to clean up immediately if he's going to play Tackle. He oversets a Ton which means he jumping out to far getting beat up and under moves a bunch and that worries me."

"Wirfs is a big, powerful offensive tackle. In pass protection, he launches out of his stance and hasn't had issues versus outside speed rushers. However, he has experienced issues against inside counter moves. He over-sets and struggles to redirect back inside, allowing too many pressures in the games I studied. When he can land his punch, it's over. His hands are so strong and he has the power base to end the play right there. In the run game, he is very strong and aggressive. He creates a ton of movement, but also will overextend and fall off at times. He's on the ground too much. I love his aggressive demeanor, but he needs to play more under control. Overall, I believe he can survive at tackle, but he'd benefit from playing with neighbors on both sides. I think Wirfs has All-Pro potential at guard."

----------

Charley Casserly, Former Longtime NFL GM

Tristan Wirfs 6-5, 320. Ran 4.85 As far as Wirfs I'd be concerned about him as a Left Tackle. Strong and physical as run blocker. Very good technician as a pass blocker when he's covered up by a TE. Looks a lot different when he's on the island. Not sure if he can play LT. Could play OG Better than Brandon Scherff due to some feel and feet coordination deficiencies. Polled NFL GMs and Execs see him more as an All-Pro Guard candidate than a Tackle

--------

Joe Thomas, HOF LT

     " I see Tristan Wirfs especially early on in his career as a guy that might start out as a Guard because just the way he moves he doesn't have as much hip mobility as I think he would need to come in and start right away as an Offensive Tackle and so when I watch him I think that he's probably going to end up starting right away as a Guard so for the Cleveland Browns they've got at least 1 really good Guard already so I think with that 1st pick they're going to be thinking offensive tackle and that's why I would put Tristan Wirfs back and say Andrew Thomas is more ready to start now as a prototypical offensive tackle. Number 3 as an offensive tackle I'd put Jedrick Wills...."    --- Joe Thomas ----

----------

John Greco, Longtime Quality Guard

" When I see a guy like this that sparks such a big show at the combine I want to go back and really look a bit at what he's doing in college on film. His explosiveness into contact does he and transfer of leverage and energy from his hips to his hands is not where you'd want ideally for a Tackle. Doesn't have the natural transition of force to unlock and unleash his raw power because of hip tightness and his feel for angles is lacking. He's more linear, tight athlete, who's back pedal and set is lacking the things. I see a guy that has a lwo center of gravity plays with good leverage I think he's powerful all these guys are your going to hear a lot of the same things for these guys in terms of attributes and strengths and everything, but his skills and play have me see him as more a fit with my position of Guard instead of a Tackle but I acknowledge he's tested really well at the combine"

------------

Bob McGinn's, Longtime Trusted NFL/Packers/Draft Insider Reporter

Polling/Interviews of GM

  Tristan Wirfs is thought to have all the raw athletic ability in the world but no instinctual biomechanical feel for when and how to move during the rigors of a pass sets. Scouts and GMs love how he plays in space but see athletic but slow and uncertain feet when he's out wide against good competition especially. Raw power and hand strength should have him excel at Guard over Tackle. Many teams see him as their #1 Guard.

-----------

Edited April 19, 2020 by Mind Character

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, big poppa pump said:

I  think it has been said on here that if he turns into Sherff, Yanda (guys who came from Iowa and converted from T to G in the NFL) or on the same level as a Quenten Nelson, then he warrants the pick regardless of playing the G position.  That is...if he truly is unable to fix the issues he has to be a great LT.  Hence...why I don't mind the pick at 10.

Thomas is really the only guy that I think has the least amount of flags for the position.  He may have reached his ceiling, but that isn't too bad.

Becton's weight, and the fact that he failed his drug test are enough to give me pause

And Wills looks to take some plays off, which gives me the "lazy" vibe.  Don't know if that is truly the case, (that he is lazy) but it scares me.

Marshall Yanda played with the dawg mentality and are some of the more nasty and tough minded Guards to play in the league.

Brandon Scherff from the time he came into the league to now is one of the best masterful technicians at Guard we've seen in many years.

Quenton Nelson is a phone booth bully and is an extreme people mover.

Wirfs has the potential to be better than all of them, but he lacks the instincts, feel, play disposition, and natural way of being that those guys had coming into the league in terms of their day 1 play quality as well as how far they had to go to fix the deficiencies they had.

All those guys had high floors; Wirfs floor is much lower but he has a higher ceiling.

I've heard you say the "Wills took plays off" thing before but I haven't encountered that opinion anywhere else nor have I seen that on tape myself.

We'll see how it all shakes out in a week and over the course of 3 years or so. If the Browns do take Wirfs, I hope he has the internal fortitude and Bill Callahan is still dialed in as a coach enough to get Wirfs where he needs to be at Tackle.

[MSURacerDT55]

How about the D-III tackle later In the draft. In addition to taking a Tackle 

Edited April 19, 2020 by MSURacerDT55

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 hours ago, Mind Character said:

 

Let's throw away what we personally think on why a guy plays guard.

What are the reasons cited by expert opinions for why they see Wirfs as a Guard (See Below)?

----------------------------

Daniel Jeremiah, Former NFL Scout and NFL Draft Analyst

"Tristan Wirfs is interesting to me because when I first watched him I thought he'd be a Guard. He reminded me a little bit of Brandon Scherff when he was coming out. Very strong, very physical but I thought the term I use he'd be better off if he had two neighbors instead of one he needs to live in the middle of the street not on the end of the street. But you look at what the guy did at the combine I acknowledge he's a phenomenal raw athlete But he has things he has to clean up immediately if he's going to play Tackle. He oversets a Ton which means he jumping out to far getting beat up and under moves a bunch and that worries me."

"Wirfs is a big, powerful offensive tackle. In pass protection, he launches out of his stance and hasn't had issues versus outside speed rushers. However, he has experienced issues against inside counter moves. He over-sets and struggles to redirect back inside, allowing too many pressures in the games I studied. When he can land his punch, it's over. His hands are so strong and he has the power base to end the play right there. In the run game, he is very strong and aggressive. He creates a ton of movement, but also will overextend and fall off at times. He's on the ground too much. I love his aggressive demeanor, but he needs to play more under control. Overall, I believe he can survive at tackle, but he'd benefit from playing with neighbors on both sides. I think Wirfs has All-Pro potential at guard."

----------

Charley Casserly, Former Longtime NFL GM

Tristan Wirfs 6-5, 320. Ran 4.85 As far as Wirfs I'd be concerned about him as a Left Tackle. Strong and physical as run blocker. Very good technician as a pass blocker when he's covered up by a TE. Looks a lot different when he's on the island. Not sure if he can play LT. Could play OG Better than Brandon Scherff due to some feel and feet coordination deficiencies. Polled NFL GMs and Execs see him more as an All-Pro Guard candidate than a Tackle

--------

Joe Thomas, HOF LT

     " I see Tristan Wirfs especially early on in his career as a guy that might start out as a Guard because just the way he moves he doesn't have as much hip mobility as I think he would need to come in and start right away as an Offensive Tackle and so when I watch him I think that he's probably going to end up starting right away as a Guard so for the Cleveland Browns they've got at least 1 really good Guard already so I think with that 1st pick they're going to be thinking offensive tackle and that's why I would put Tristan Wirfs back and say Andrew Thomas is more ready to start now as a prototypical offensive tackle. Number 3 as an offensive tackle I'd put Jedrick Wills...."    --- Joe Thomas ----

----------

John Greco, Longtime Quality Guard

" When I see a guy like this that sparks such a big show at the combine I want to go back and really look a bit at what he's doing in college on film. His explosiveness into contact does he and transfer of leverage and energy from his hips to his hands is not where you'd want ideally for a Tackle. Doesn't have the natural transition of force to unlock and unleash his raw power because of hip tightness and his feel for angles is lacking. He's more linear, tight athlete, who's back pedal and set is lacking the things. I see a guy that has a lwo center of gravity plays with good leverage I think he's powerful all these guys are your going to hear a lot of the same things for these guys in terms of attributes and strengths and everything, but his skills and play have me see him as more a fit with my position of Guard instead of a Tackle but I acknowledge he's tested really well at the combine"

------------

Bob McGinn's, Longtime Trusted NFL/Packers/Draft Insider Reporter

Polling/Interviews of GM

  Tristan Wirfs is thought to have all the raw athletic ability in the world but no instinctual biomechanical feel for when and how to move during the rigors of a pass sets. Scouts and GMs love how he plays in space but see athletic but slow and uncertain feet when he's out wide against good competition especially. Raw power and hand strength should have him excel at Guard over Tackle. Many teams see him as their #1 Guard.

-----------

I get it man, a bunch of guys who got fired/never hired disagree either me.  I’m cool with that.

Im sure they all thought Tom Brady couldn’t play either.

The “refer to authority” logical fallacy does little for me when the entire premise of their “knowledge” is an opinion.

[Kiwibrown]

im not against taking an awesome guard in the top 10, especially if he can zone block. 

Id be happy with Wirfs at 10 and draft another guy at end of the 1st round with a trade up. 

[mtmmike]

16 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

im not against taking an awesome guard in the top 10, especially if he can zone block. 

Id be happy with Wirfs at 10 and draft another guy at end of the 1st round with a trade up. 

Excellent post the thing that nobody mentions if we get some pieces on defense we can get starting guards and tackles down in the draft.

Also next year there are 6 tackles that have 1st round grades plus IOL like that have comparable grades to the best guards today.

[mtmmike]

To me the best of all scenarios is trade that yields thomas.

Then get a second round pick that yields something like Wilson and the Penn State WR

 

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The “refer to authority” logical fallacy does little for me when the entire premise of their “knowledge” is an opinion.

F*** "Authority" and Authoritarian Illusions of Knowledge.

You're really the worst.

Those person's comments on WIrfs were simply meant as exemplars of the kinds of things people are thinking about when they talk about Wirfs being a Guard not that "they are right because they're authority" or whatever the f***.

Blah Blah. Nuance. Blah Blah. Context.

Wirfs is a Guard.

tl;dr

Eat a Bag.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Mind Character

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

32 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

F*** "Authority" and Authoritarian Illusions of Knowledge.

You're really the worst.

Those person's comments on WIrfs were simply meant as exemplars of the kinds of things people are thinking about when they talk about Wirfs being a Guard not that "they are right because they're authority" or whatever the f***.

Blah Blah. Nuance. Blah Blah. Context.

Wirfs is a Guard.

tl;dr

Eat a Bag.

 

[candyman93]

38 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

F*** "Authority" and Authoritarian Illusions of Knowledge.

You're really the worst.

Those person's comments on WIrfs were simply meant as exemplars of the kinds of things people are thinking about when they talk about Wirfs being a Guard not that "they are right because they're authority" or whatever the f***.

Blah Blah. Nuance. Blah Blah. Context.

Wirfs is a Guard.

tl;dr

Eat a Bag.

 

[Mind Character]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

 

 

Lol.

Definitely not triggered in the sense of that pasty liberal.

More triggered in that other other way ...

 

Delphin at Safety.... Wirfs at Tackle... FF Browns forum mass celebration....

The Great Amnesia-ing or whatever that was shall soon commence...

Prepare thineselves...

[Mind Character]

12 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

 

 

That video of you and your comrades seems like you all had a good time....

I'm assuming you were the 2 guy with the crazy solo...

As I estimate that video to be from the 70s ... ah we were all young then...  that would put you in your 70s maybe 80s.

Rejoice! Before this life ends for you you will see Grant Delphin and Tackle Wirfs lead the Browns to a superbowl this year with no fans in the stands....

What a time to be alive...

Edited April 20, 2020 by Mind Character

[buno67]

1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

im not against taking an awesome guard in the top 10, especially if he can zone block. 

Id be happy with Wirfs at 10 and draft another guy at end of the 1st round with a trade up. 

Guards are less vital to zone scheme compared to tackles. Gotta get a guy who can truly play LT before you get a RG. It’s even more important because of pass blocking.

[Kiwibrown]

Just now, buno67 said:

Guards are less vital to zone scheme compared to tackles. Gotta get a guy who can truly play LT before you get a RG. It’s even more important because of pass blocking.

I agree, but hta if we do not like the value at 10? Id rather a potential all pro guard at 10 and a decent tackle in the 2n round than a good tackle at 10 or trade down.