Let’s talk CBA...

[whodatworm23]

So, I’m not gonna get into each and every little detail of the new proposed NFL CBA but it’s CLEAR what the NFL owners have done... they have targeted the bottom half of NFL rosters with tea leaves and olive branches along with the promise of a 10 window of no work stoppage as a root to get the majority vote to pass this proposed CBA. Of course, the top half of the rosters, especially the top 10-15 players are outraged over the details of the contract as it does not play into their favor as the big money bread winners of the salary cap pie. 

 

I have ave yet to see any bottom tier NFL player come out and publicly ridicule the new proposed CBA... if you have please inform me. All of the players I’ve seen hate on the new CBA are players with fat contracts and or endorsement deals. The guys making league minimum and so forth aren’t complaining here and the top half knows it. That’s why players like the Pouncy twins and Kenny Stills are out there on social media pleading with lower level players to vote No and pleading with upper level players to vow to assist these guys during a potential lockout. My question is if these upper level players now so concerned with the lower half, then where was that concern when they were signing their big money contracts? Where was the “hey save some of that for the other guys mentality”  during contract time? It was non existent because it’s an every man for himself mentality when it comes to getting your paper but now that the lower half actually has a say in this matter, the upper half now wants the lower half to do for them what they were never willing to do for the lower half.

 

The owners flipped this thing on the players head and now there coming to the realization that their not the tight nit brotherhood they once thought they were. Players have family’s and they come first. The majority of NFL players aren’t super rich, go look at NFL team salaries and look at the drop off in pay around the 14 to 18th player on the roster (depending on team) it’s a big difference in financial security. Most of these players don’t have bonuses, guaranteed moneys and basically are lucky for each year there in the NFL.

 

So so now it’s up to a independent numbers vote that will be made in the privacy of each players home, outside the Locke room where other players can have a greater influence. That’s why we’re seeing such a public attack by wealthy players on fat contracts, it’s directed to a particular group of people and that’s the lower class of NFL rosters which is another thing this new proposed CBA has done, its drawn a clear line in the sand between the two and actually highlights the fact that their is a divide within the player ranks. 

 

This is whole thing is fascinating to me and I honestly cannot wait to see the results of this voting process... what do you think, will the players stand united and reject the new proposed CBA or will the rank in file finally have their say and opt for the security of a new CBA over the empty promises of a few rich players?

 

 

WHODAT

[Dome]

NFL was very smart to appeal to the bottom (and largest) tier of players. I think it passes.

[whodatworm23]

3 hours ago, Dome said:

NFL was very smart to appeal to the bottom (and largest) tier of players. I think it passes.

I agree... It was a smart strategy, intresting to see if it pays off for them. Although their is a report now that some owners are hoping it will fail as they see an oppertunity for a better deal for them and possibility of an 18th game.

 

Its never gonna change... The players can speak a good game but it would take a solid 2 year holdout to truly finically hit these owners but once those game checks stop getting cut those player ranks start to show major cracks.

 

Owners know this.

[Canadian Saint]

While I understand why middle and lower tier NFL players agreed to this, and I even get why they only got 48.5% of the revenue (I believe the NHL and NBA is 50-50), for the life of me I don't understand why healthcare coverage hasn't been extended/improved. The moment an MLB player plays a single game of baseball, they get lifetime health care coverage. Those guys have 40 man rosters for each team. You'd think with a sport with this much physical impact on your body, the players, or atleast the leaders, would push for health insurance for much longer. High, medium or lower tier, the after effects of a life time of playing football will eventually catch up.

Correct me if I'm wrong here (I've been tangentially following this tbh), but they also added an extra game and potentially less offseason time (the latter point according to Aaron Rodgers as a source)?

[Dome]

FWIS Cam Jordan said he’d be on board with this new CBA if the NFL gave them some extra roster spots and an extra bye 

[whodatworm23]

6 hours ago, Canadian Saint said:

While I understand why middle and lower tier NFL players agreed to this, and I even get why they only got 48.5% of the revenue (I believe the NHL and NBA is 50-50), for the life of me I don't understand why healthcare coverage hasn't been extended/improved. The moment an MLB player plays a single game of baseball, they get lifetime health care coverage. Those guys have 40 man rosters for each team. You'd think with a sport with this much physical impact on your body, the players, or atleast the leaders, would push for health insurance for much longer. High, medium or lower tier, the after effects of a life time of playing football will eventually catch up.

Correct me if I'm wrong here (I've been tangentially following this tbh), but they also added an extra game and potentially less offseason time (the latter point according to Aaron Rodgers as a source)?

This is a major issue on part of the players... the new proposed CBA actually (if I’m correct) will be removing some of the current health care opportunities for retired players, even ones that were vested and have earned those privileges.  One of the Pouncy twins spoke on this at one point via twitter. It’s like so many bills that try to get passed, the NFL are hiding little nuggets underneath a wealth of possibility. There appealing to the lower class of the NFL rosters who are in a position to only think about making sure the checks keep coming in, they IMO (NFL) are also appealing to the immaturity of some NFL players with the less restricted marijuana policy. The owners know all they need is a majority vote and if they can appeal to just enough, that’s all they need.

 

My concern would be more so to do with health care present and future and improving both aspects of that as well as extra time off to allow their body’s to heal. I’m one that feels an extra bye week during the season is a great compromise so I agree with Cam Jordan on that aspect. I honestly don’t feel we need more than 2 preseason games and let’s not forget the teams that are chosen for the Hall of Fame game are playing another game on top of this. The 48.5 percentage is actually a massive amount of money when you factor in how much more money the NFL generates than other leagues and at the end of the day that’s a battle the owners will never let the players win.

 

Kenny Stills mentioned on Twitter, he said... “vote no, show the owners we run this league” This is the thought process permeating throughout the league. NFL players want what NBA players get but it’s NEVER going to happen. The owners will never allow the NFL to become a players run league as the NBA has allowed itself to become. Even if it means an extended lockout, so be it. How long do players truly believe that they will stick together during that? Is Kenny Stills really prepared to pay the rent and bills of upwards of 20-30 of his fellow teammates for up to 2-3 years? Of course not! Lower class players know this that’s why when you listen to current players such as Ryan Fitzpatrick speak on this, his approach to it was that while he did not agree with everything within the CBA he fully understands what the consequences of a potential lockout would mean for so many of his fellow teammates that he come to the realization that this deal was better than fighting a war the players simply can’t win. Fitzpatrick wasn’t prepared to sacrifice the foot soldiers in an effort to make millionaires a little more money. He saw through the hypocrisy of the NFL players and made his decision.

 

As for me personally, I have no dog in this fight. There’s issues with the CBA that I can see from both sides but it appears to me that the players seemingly want everything their way and anyone who’s dealt with any sort of business negotiations before knows that, that simply is not going to happen especially when your battling a business as powerful and as wealthy as the NFL. If the players bond together then more power to them and I wish them the best but there will be casualties in that fight and only the rich will survive the war. To me I tend to side with Fitzpatrick’s line of thinking and feel that a certain percentage of the players feel they were taken advantage of in the last CBA negotiations and want to make amends for that reguardless of the cost.          

[Raves]

On 3/8/2020 at 4:00 AM, whodatworm23 said:

This is a major issue on part of the players... the new proposed CBA actually (if I’m correct) will be removing some of the current health care opportunities for retired players, even ones that were vested and have earned those privileges.  One of the Pouncy twins spoke on this at one point via twitter. It’s like so many bills that try to get passed, the NFL are hiding little nuggets underneath a wealth of possibility. There appealing to the lower class of the NFL rosters who are in a position to only think about making sure the checks keep coming in, they IMO (NFL) are also appealing to the immaturity of some NFL players with the less restricted marijuana policy. The owners know all they need is a majority vote and if they can appeal to just enough, that’s all they need.

 

My concern would be more so to do with health care present and future and improving both aspects of that as well as extra time off to allow their body’s to heal. I’m one that feels an extra bye week during the season is a great compromise so I agree with Cam Jordan on that aspect. I honestly don’t feel we need more than 2 preseason games and let’s not forget the teams that are chosen for the Hall of Fame game are playing another game on top of this. The 48.5 percentage is actually a massive amount of money when you factor in how much more money the NFL generates than other leagues and at the end of the day that’s a battle the owners will never let the players win.

 

Kenny Stills mentioned on Twitter, he said... “vote no, show the owners we run this league” This is the thought process permeating throughout the league. NFL players want what NBA players get but it’s NEVER going to happen. The owners will never allow the NFL to become a players run league as the NBA has allowed itself to become. Even if it means an extended lockout, so be it. How long do players truly believe that they will stick together during that? Is Kenny Stills really prepared to pay the rent and bills of upwards of 20-30 of his fellow teammates for up to 2-3 years? Of course not! Lower class players know this that’s why when you listen to current players such as Ryan Fitzpatrick speak on this, his approach to it was that while he did not agree with everything within the CBA he fully understands what the consequences of a potential lockout would mean for so many of his fellow teammates that he come to the realization that this deal was better than fighting a war the players simply can’t win. Fitzpatrick wasn’t prepared to sacrifice the foot soldiers in an effort to make millionaires a little more money. He saw through the hypocrisy of the NFL players and made his decision.

 

As for me personally, I have no dog in this fight. There’s issues with the CBA that I can see from both sides but it appears to me that the players seemingly want everything their way and anyone who’s dealt with any sort of business negotiations before knows that, that simply is not going to happen especially when your battling a business as powerful and as wealthy as the NFL. If the players bond together then more power to them and I wish them the best but there will be casualties in that fight and only the rich will survive the war. To me I tend to side with Fitzpatrick’s line of thinking and feel that a certain percentage of the players feel they were taken advantage of in the last CBA negotiations and want to make amends for that reguardless of the cost.          

I think a fair compromise would be to vote no and only fight over 1 or 2 details to be slightly improved, for example keeping the current benefits for retired players and anything else that be minor and not likely to lead to a hold out.  The money split you kind of have to live with, especially if the revenue continues to increase then so will their paychecks.  As long as average QBs don't try to break the bank that is *cough*Dak*cough*

[whodatworm23]

4 hours ago, Raves said:

I think a fair compromise would be to vote no and only fight over 1 or 2 details to be slightly improved, for example keeping the current benefits for retired players and anything else that be minor and not likely to lead to a hold out.  The money split you kind of have to live with, especially if the revenue continues to increase then so will their paychecks.  As long as average QBs don't try to break the bank that is *cough*Dak*cough*

I think all non quarterbacks should be advocating for quarterback contracts to be separate from the salary cap. Not every owner is keen on this deal either, many penny pinchers *cough*Mike Brown* cough* feel the best deal would be had after a short lockout when the lower class players really start feeling the heat and seeing their NFL window flash before them. What I hate is that these players only go on their platforms and hoop and holla about how terrible the deal is but don’t elaborate on what has them so upset. Cam Jordan is about the only guy along with Aaron Rodgers who at least put a logical reason out their as to why there opposed. In the event of a holdout, eventually it’s gonna be a race for fan sympathy like always and that seems to be an area that the players never win. 

[Raves]

19 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

I think all non quarterbacks should be advocating for quarterback contracts to be separate from the salary cap. Not every owner is keen on this deal either, many penny pinchers *cough*Mike Brown* cough* feel the best deal would be had after a short lockout when the lower class players really start feeling the heat and seeing their NFL window flash before them. What I hate is that these players only go on their platforms and hoop and holla about how terrible the deal is but don’t elaborate on what has them so upset. Cam Jordan is about the only guy along with Aaron Rodgers who at least put a logical reason out their as to why there opposed. In the event of a holdout, eventually it’s gonna be a race for fan sympathy like always and that seems to be an area that the players never win. 

If they frame the dispute being based on wanting better healthcare benefits and not specifically a larger share of the pie they could win the fight.  But if it's about letting millionaires take more of the money from billionaires... not many will care

[whodatworm23]

13 hours ago, Raves said:

If they frame the dispute being based on wanting better healthcare benefits and not specifically a larger share of the pie they could win the fight.  But if it's about letting millionaires take more of the money from billionaires... not many will care

I honestly don’t see any way they can win to be honest... being real, majority of fans can care less. All most fans want is to watch football and can care less about millionaires arguing with billionaires haggling over money so the players are not, never have and never will win the fan sympathy vote. Healthcare issue, sure... the fans will side with the players there but never enough to say it’s worth not having football on Sundays. On top of that, the players simply are not organized or united enough to holdout for as long as it would take to truly impact the owners pockets. NFL players career windows are to short and their primes are even shorter and the college game is an endless supply of employees looking to get paid. IMO the players can talk a big game but in the end they really don’t have the ammo or the commitment to win a all out war with the owners. The NFLPA understands this and I go back to what NFL players really want (the rich NFL players who’s been paid already) they want to be NBA players, they want what those guys have and it is NEVER gonna happen. 

[Raves]

16 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

I honestly don’t see any way they can win to be honest... being real, majority of fans can care less. All most fans want is to watch football and can care less about millionaires arguing with billionaires haggling over money so the players are not, never have and never will win the fan sympathy vote. Healthcare issue, sure... the fans will side with the players there but never enough to say it’s worth not having football on Sundays. On top of that, the players simply are not organized or united enough to holdout for as long as it would take to truly impact the owners pockets. NFL players career windows are to short and their primes are even shorter and the college game is an endless supply of employees looking to get paid. IMO the players can talk a big game but in the end they really don’t have the ammo or the commitment to win a all out war with the owners. The NFLPA understands this and I go back to what NFL players really want (the rich NFL players who’s been paid already) they want to be NBA players, they want what those guys have and it is NEVER gonna happen. 

Unless there is a rule stating that players can't play football for other leagues during a holdout, not sure if their contracts etc would do that, the lesser players especially have more opportunities than before to still make a living due to the XFL, at least during the next CBA negotiations.  if the XFL was smart, they would work with the Players Association to provide as many of the lower end players that can't afford to miss out like the top end players a place to continue to make a living.  If the owners play hardball with the players, the XFL benefits with an influx of higher quality players, though likely not the stars, and if the owners cave to some of the demands, obviously not to the point of making it the NBA or MLB in regards to players control, then the XFL still garners a good relationship with players that might decide the XFL is a better option than the practice squad or very end of an NFL roster and get some higher caliber talent which in turn would improve their own revenue and strength as a league.

[whodatworm23]

So the new CBA passes... I have not yet seen a percentage of what the player divide was and I doubt we will but like we all kinda figured, the lower class of the NFL players have spoken and the upper class just gonna have to bite the bullet on this one.

[Canadian Saint]

26 minutes ago, whodatworm23 said:

So the new CBA passes... I have not yet seen a percentage of what the player divide was and I doubt we will but like we all kinda figured, the lower class of the NFL players have spoken and the upper class just gonna have to bite the bullet on this one.

1019 voted yes, 959 voted no, approx. 500 didn't vote. That's a bloody close vote. Will be interesting to see the ramifications of this going forward. Expanded playoffs coming this season, with an extra game next season (presumabely).

[whodatworm23]

38 minutes ago, Canadian Saint said:

1019 voted yes, 959 voted no, approx. 500 didn't vote. That's a bloody close vote. Will be interesting to see the ramifications of this going forward. Expanded playoffs coming this season, with an extra game next season (presumabely).

Wow... Much closer than expected. No way this dosent cause tensions in the locker rooms.

[Mid Iowa]

And here I thought it was America in general that was divided due to Clinton... I mean Bush... I mean Obama... I mean Trump....

It looks like the standard these days is conflict of some sort. The lower paid being upset with the higher paid. The rich guys and gals at the top twisting the wrists of the impression makers.

At the end of the day, I want to see slobber knocking football, I guess.