BayRaider Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Counselor said: You said he was horrible. Which he wasn’t If you are not in the Top 20 QBs, you are horrible and replaceable at any second. 1-5 Elite, 6-10 Above Tier, 11-13 Solid QBs, 14-17 Average QBs, 18-20 Below Average, 21 or worse - Horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: If you are not in the Top 20 QBs, you are horrible and replaceable at any second. 1-5 Elite, 6-10 Above Tier, 11-13 Solid QBs, 14-17 Average QBs, 18-20 Below Average, 21 or worse - Horrible. He was a rookie. Saying he was horrible is a joke. I won’t derail this thread any longer. But this is laughable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Counselor said: He was a rookie. Saying he was horrible is a joke. I won’t derail this thread any longer. But this is laughable. I mean, he was horrible in college too, if you didn’t know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Just now, BayRaider said: I mean, he was horrible in college too, if you didn’t know that. I hated lock as a prospect. Go check the Broncos forum. I absolutely trashed him. So far he looks much better than I thought he would and so far I was wrong. But see I can admit that. Not make up that he was horrible so my evaluations can look better or say oh I had no opinion on Mahomes (so I can’t be wrong by not having him high up there). Lock was not horrible last year. You’re wrong and I will just leave it at that. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Counselor said: I hated lock as a prospect. Go check the Broncos forum. I absolutely trashed him. So far he looks much better than I thought he would and so far I was wrong. But see I can admit that. Not make up that he was horrible so my evaluations can look better or say oh I had no opinion on Mahomes (so I can’t be wrong by not having him high up there). Lock was not horrible last year. You’re wrong and I will just leave it at that. Ok, let’s phrase it this way. I kind of group everyone in that 21-32 range as horrible. But Rookies, especially with limited playing time, can have exceptions. Like I said, Lock was the most promising Rookie QB next to Murray. I thought he was way better than Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins. 2020 will be a big prove it year for Lock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Ok, let’s phrase it this way. I kind of group everyone in that 21-32 range as horrible. But Rookies, especially with limited playing time, can have exceptions. Like I said, Lock was the most promising Rookie QB next to Murray. I thought he was way better than Daniel Jones and Dwayne Haskins. 2020 will be a big prove it year for Lock. This is better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BZski Posted March 7, 2020 Author Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BayRaider said: Disagree. Tua is my 2nd Favorite QB Prospect since 2013... only an inch behind Burrow. And since 2012: 1) Andrew Luck 2) Burrow 3) Tua 4) Wentz 5) RGIII Lawrence above all 5 next year. Someone will certainly trade up for Tua. He has Franchise QB written all over him and IMO will be a Top 5 QB. Him and Burrow both will be. Especially with the head honchos all about to retire. My trade up candidate has always been Miami but the Chargers and Panthers are certainly in the mix. It’ll be one of those three teams. It’d be the Raiders if we picked 8 or lower 100%. But moving from 12 to 3 would cost a fortune and Mayock isn’t gonna do it. I agree. I would look at the Jets package for Darnold as a start because Tua is a much better prospect but has some injury concerns. The truth starts to come out at the combine when everyone is there. It is not a coincidence that all these draftniks just now have a "feeling" someone is going to trade up to 3 and start even mocking a trade in their mocks. It will probably be Miami but I am thinking with the Chargers moving into a new stadium and being that every home game they have feels like a road game, they are going to go all in to get Tua and try to get an excited home crowd in a new stadium. Edited March 7, 2020 by BZski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 2 hours ago, BayRaider said: Ok, let’s phrase it this way. I kind of group everyone in that 21-32 range as horrible. Doesn't that kind of, by definition, make them not HORRIBLE, but rather "not good", or "sort of a gamble"? Or "a developmental prospect"? Should we begin qualifying your posts, in the "21-32 range" as HORRIBLE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: Doesn't that kind of, by definition, make them not HORRIBLE, but rather "not good", or "sort of a gamble"? Or "a developmental prospect"? Should we begin qualifying your posts, in the "21-32 range" as HORRIBLE? I never said there can’t be context like a Rookie QB with limited playing time. But I’m not gonna put that disclaimer in every post. Although that’s the only excuse I’d have is a Rookie QB who didn’t look abysmal. People get crazy with excuses. - New OC - Too many OCs - Bad OC - WR Core sucks - No #1 WR (only like 10 of these exist) - Bad Run Game - Bad Offense Line, and it’s ranked like 13 - Offensive Line didn’t start all 16 games together (this one is incredible... newest of the Carr excuses) People will make endless excuses for their QB. When in reality, there’s a 95% chance he just.... sucks. Only excuse is being a Rookie, and not being utterly horrible as a Rookie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: I never said there can’t be context like a Rookie QB with limited playing time. But I’m not gonna put that disclaimer in every post. Then don't be so dismissive. You're a great poster, with good insight (even though I don't ALWAYS agree with you). Being so sharp-edged, hardcore, whatever, makes you look kinda bad... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, BayRaider said: Certainly didn’t have starting QB caliber play. 6.5 ypa to go along with it. IMO Lock looked the most promising QB outside of Murray. However, he still has tons to prove in 2020 to show he is a Top 20 caliber NFL QB. And yet you said you rated both Finley and Greer over him, neither of whom started for their teams did they ? Hmmmm He won 4 out of 5 games without a #2 receiver, much of his starting Oline was injured yet showed a lot of poise IMO. Just curious, where would Derek Carr rank as far as current QB's go, in your opinion ? Edited March 7, 2020 by Cutler06 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Heinz D. said: Then don't be so dismissive. You're a great poster, with good insight (even though I don't ALWAYS agree with you). Being so sharp-edged, hardcore, whatever, makes you look kinda bad... I was never dismissive about Lock? I think he’s the only non-Murray QB of that class that has a chance to break the Top 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDez Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Miami shouldn’t overthink this one. Trade up for your guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Cutler06 said: And yet you said you ranted both Finley and Greer over him ? Hmmmm He won 4 out of 5 games without a #2 receiver, much of his starting Oline. Just curious, where would Derek Carr rank as far as current QB's go, in your opinion ? This is a year of hindsight in the NFL. Lock looked much better than Jones, Haskins, Finley, and Grier. He is the only one who has a chance to become a good QB outside of Murray. I have Carr as 19. Below Average. I prefer to move on from Carr. The Raider Forum I’d say is: 50% in favor of moving on, 20% want to give Carr another year, and 30% are still die-hard Carr fans and think he’s a Top 10 QB.... Edited March 8, 2020 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, BayRaider said: This is a year of hindsight in the NFL. Lock looked much better than Jones, Haskins, Finley, and Grier. He is the only one who has a chance to become a good QB outside of Murray. I have Carr as 19. Below Average. I prefer to move on from Carr. The Raider Forum I’d say is: 50% in favor of moving on, 20% want to give Carr another year, and 30% are still die-hard Carr fans and think he’s a Top 10 QB.... So with multiple picks this year, how many more chances do you think the Raiders have to move away from Carr and get a top flight QB ?? Are ya'll pinning hope of Tom Terrific leading you next couple of years ?? Unless your team is thinking of tanking here soon.... Edited March 8, 2020 by Cutler06 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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