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Superstars are far more greedy than the owners


SkippyX

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1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

Getting a major sports league off the ground and turning it into a billion dollar organization is about 10,000 times harder than throwing a football well.

 

Go on then let's get that long list of current NFL owners who got the NFL off the ground. There's a fine case to be made that a lot of the NFL OG's and pioneers risked and did a lot to build this league decades ago, but I'm not about to pretend Jed York or Mark Davis deserves credit in perpetuity for the stuff their dads did. Current NFL owners risk and produce very little towards the game, and I'd argue there's maybe only one glaring exception to that in Jerry Jones. For the most part, they're buying into a product that has already won its hold in this country's fabric and culture. And the reason we keep tuning is because we can't get enough of the stuff we see the players do every Sunday. 

In any case these conversations are always interesting because because the implication at the end of the day seems to be that it's 'smart business' when the owners do something to line their pockets and 'greed' when the players do it. Maybe you guys tune in to the NFL to revel in Shad Khan's investment portfolio but that's not me, and I'm good with the players getting more compensation for actually being the product we all consume.  

Edited by BaltimoreTerp
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2 hours ago, seriously27 said:

Let me just lay out a scenario for you though.

Lets' say you grew up poor, like really poor. And your family all grew up poor as well. And most of your friends are also poor. Now then let's say you win the genetic lottery and work your way into a pro career that ends up giving you millions of dollars. But your close family is poor right? So you feel bad and you have to take care of your mom right? so you buy her a house and a car and make sure she is taken care of....but then you see your extended family is still poor too. How can you go to family reunions or any of that stuff without feeling horrible right? And maybe you know they can't pay their bills and maybe you know they can't pay for their house? You are a millionaire now right? So you can take care of them too....but wait! You told all your friends you were going to take care of them too. They are your friends and you can't leave them behind right? Then maybe you get someone in your ear telling you they have a great business opportunity and this guy wearing a nice suit and has a nice car is telling you how he can turn you millions into tens of millions....how can your turn that down? Did the college prepare you for this? No....they only cared that you got C's so you could play on Sat. Did your manager prepare you for this? Probably not since he is most likely your uncle or a friend you hired because you are not very trusting from growing up in a bad environment. So you say yes and watch as people steal/borrow and burn through your money because you just wanted to help the people you were told you were leaving behind.

It's not as easy as just saying you wouldn't do it. A lot of people who say that didn't grow up where they grew up and don't have to deal with what they have to deal with. 

Actually it is. I know about peer pressure and looking out for those you grew up with. But life choices are just that they are life choices. Part of growing up is knowing what to take with you and what to leave behind. 

Being brought up poor may not have done that person any favors but those choices fall on the person. We have seen rich kids who grow up with every advantage blow through their inherentince not long after they inherit it. It's about self control and discipline. I grew poor as did my cousin. He earns over 240k a year doing IT and he still shops at Goodwill for the "good deals", I bragged to him about getting my s10+ for 600 dollars like 2 months after it came out and he mocked me for not getting it refurbished. 

I have family members who are terrible at managing money. I tell them I dont have any for them even though I do but I know they would just waste it anyways. These are close relatives who I've been through alot with and we do alot for each other but I've had to set limits because they just dont have the self control to manage themselves. 

You make the choice to be more responsible, it's not a situation you are born into. Now i feel bad for guys like Mike Tyson who had it worse then most people in america with the way he was brought up. Only to be used by every person he ever encountered early in life. I really do feel bad for them. But now days there are support groups especially in team sports where guys look out for each other. Guys who council and take others under their wing, I mean it's not the same era where these young guys stay ignorant to the world around them with the smart devices we have today and the constant communication we have with eachother. 

The sources of help and advice of how to advance your life are there. I mean I just saw I think it was Brian Orakpo on a commercial like a year or two ago talking about a bakery he opened up because it was a hobby of his. A freaking bakery of all things. What I'm saying is times have changed and more and more accountability needs to be applied to these guys who are just living it up and being immature with their money. Maybe some are still just in a real bad spot. But that's not true for the majority now. 

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16 minutes ago, Calvert28 said:

Actually it is. I know about peer pressure and looking out for those you grew up with. But life choices are just that they are life choices. Part of growing up is knowing what to take with you and what to leave behind. 

Being brought up poor may not have done that person any favors but those choices fall on the person. We have seen rich kids who grow up with every advantage blow through their inherentince not long after they inherit it. It's about self control and discipline. I grew poor as did my cousin. He earns over 240k a year doing IT and he still shops at Goodwill for the "good deals", I bragged to him about getting my s10+ for 600 dollars like 2 months after it came out and he mocked me for not getting it refurbished. 

I have family members who are terrible at managing money. I tell them I dont have any for them even though I do but I know they would just waste it anyways. These are close relatives who I've been through alot with and we do alot for each other but I've had to set limits because they just dont have the self control to manage themselves. 

You make the choice to be more responsible, it's not a situation you are born into. Now i feel bad for guys like Mike Tyson who had it worse then most people in america with the way he was brought up. Only to be used by every person he ever encountered early in life. I really do feel bad for them. But now days there are support groups especially in team sports where guys look out for each other. Guys who council and take others under their wing, I mean it's not the same era where these young guys stay ignorant to the world around them with the smart devices we have today and the constant communication we have with eachother. 

The sources of help and advice of how to advance your life are there. I mean I just saw I think it was Brian Orakpo on a commercial like a year or two ago talking about a bakery he opened up because it was a hobby of his. A freaking bakery of all things. What I'm saying is times have changed and more and more accountability needs to be applied to these guys who are just living it up and being immature with their money. Maybe some are still just in a real bad spot. But that's not true for the majority now. 

I agree with a lot of this and I think the numbers of success stories from these guys have gone up for those reasons. But it's still prevelant and will always be as long as money like that is involved. 

The guys who lose it to gambling though....you are just an idiot. 

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Oh, no... This wheel was already rolling back in the 80s (hell, the 20s of you want to talk about "off the ground"). None of these modern day owners had anything to do with that.

If you are McCaskey, or Davis, or Hunt, or Bowlen, or Brown, or Rooney, or Mara and so on then your family did.

If you are McNair then your dad brought football back to Houston.

If you are Jerry Jones then your world class negotiating skills and business savvy led to this incredible boom to their revenues.

If you are Lurie or Kraft, you saved floundering franchises owned by a couple of clowns.

( Dan Snyder is an obvious exception. Every player has done more for the NFL than Dan Snyder)

 

What Favre or Rodgers or Lynn Dickey or Don Majkowski do will never compare to any of that.

Rodgers missed huge parts of 2013 and 2017 and ratings stayed up and life went on.

When he retires we will not miss a beat.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

If you are McCaskey, or Davis, or Hunt, or Bowlen, or Brown, or Rooney, or Mara and so on then your family did.

As @BaltimoreTerp said, this isn't an accomplishment in perpetuity. The family owns the team, sure - the individuals on the team in the beginning built it up. The risk was on the founding fathers, the nine figure rewards were on the rest of the family.

47 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

If you are McNair then your dad brought football back to Houston

But Cal didn't do that - Bob cut the $700,000,000 franchise fee to place a bid along with the Los Angeles groups, Bob built up NRG, Bob secured the SB bid. Cal is benefitting from his dads' business decision, but not the guy who brought football back to Houston, just as much as Amy Adams Strunk isn't the woman who took football from Houston.

47 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

If you are Jerry Jones then your world class negotiating skills and business savvy led to this incredible boom to their revenues.

Won't argue this one.

47 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

If you are Lurie or Kraft, you saved floundering franchises owned by a couple of clowns.

Or bought low into a business opportunity. The league infrastructure was already in place for decades before Lurie or Kraft even made their first $100,000; Why again do they get credit for building the house if all they did was re-did the kitchen? Sure, re-doing the kitchen increases value for everyone involved - but I don't get to say I built the house.

47 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

What Favre or Rodgers or Lynn Dickey or Don Majkowski do will never compare to any of that.

I couldn't disagree more. I don't watch the Texans because Bob McNair or Cal McNair own the team, I watch because I'm a fan of Andre Johnson, JJ Watt, Deshaun Watson, etc. At the core of it, these revenues come in because millions of people want to watch adults play a game. TV contracts and ad space gets to zero if nobody watches - we've seen countless leagues come and go simply because of a lack of viewership. People don't tune in because the owners, they tune in because of the players - and this goes beyond football, this is applicable in ANY sport. Women's Softball, Pro Lacrosse leagues, the Continental Basketball Association, the AAF - why did they fail? Nobody watched. Why didn't anyone watch? There's nobody there that's worth a damn. 

(Before you ask me about the WNBA, reminder that 90% of that league is funded by the NBA, which has revenue numbers on par with the NFL. If the WNBA had to stand on its own, it would die a quick and silent death).

Red Grange - a player - did more for this league than any owner, simply because he was a "must watch" athlete. Owners were smart to catch that lightning in a bottle to monetize it, turning a profit. If that doesn't happen, pro football as we know it probably never takes hold and college football probably remains king.

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40 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

If you are McCaskey, or Davis, or Hunt, or Bowlen, or Brown, or Rooney, or Mara and so on then your family did.

If you are McNair then your dad brought football back to Houston.

Good for their parents. The actual owners haven't done much at all for the "legacy" of the NFL. They basically just profit. 
Players are putting their bodies on the line. They risk getting permanently injuried. 

 

46 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

What Favre or Rodgers or Lynn Dickey or Don Majkowski do will never compare to any of that.

Rodgers missed huge parts of 2013 and 2017 and ratings stayed up and life went on.

When he retires we will not miss a beat.

The owners could ALL mysteriously dissapear overnight and you know what? It wouldn't change a thing. 
NFL Players are the ones playing the game. They're faaaaaaar more important to the product than the owners. 

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Just now, BaltimoreTerp said:

Are you under the impression NFL owners are intimately involved in the day to day operations of their teams? 

Are you under the impression that they don't oversee that sort of thing or work on the various aspects of their teams management in some fashion? That they simply just sit there laughing about how much money they have?

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The whole owners versus players angle is Marxist workers vs the owners garbage.

Every player is free to form their own league.

Every player from the '80s is gone and I am still watching.

Rodgers is as much a capitalist pig as Dan Snyder, if not more so. (when using the stupid capitalist pig argument)

 

The players are important. All 2000 of them. (not just the 50 or 80 highest paid)

How many of you watched and played Fantasy Football 15 years ago? There are like 5 guys left if that and you are still watching and playing.

You don't care who the players are as long as they are playing.

No one wants a bad product but Aaron Rodgers is not affecting the other 15 games each week.

 

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3 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

The whole owners versus players angle is Marxist workers vs the owners garbage.

Every player is free to form their own league.

Every player from the '80s is gone and I am still watching.

Rodgers is as much a capitalist pig as Dan Snyder, if not more so. (when using the stupid capitalist pig argument)

 

The players are important. All 2000 of them. (not just the 50 or 80 highest paid)

How many of you watched and played Fantasy Football 15 years ago? There are like 5 guys left if that and you are still watching and playing.

You don't care who the players are as long as they are playing.

No one wants a bad product but Aaron Rodgers is not affecting the other 15 games each week.

 

Case in point Alliance of American Football, XFL, etc. 

Hardly anyone here tunes in on a weekly basis to watch the XFL or did so for the AAF

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4 minutes ago, Danger said:

Are you under the impression that they don't oversee that sort of thing or work on the various aspects of their teams management in some fashion? That they simply just sit there laughing about how much money they have?

They make personnel decisions, sure. Whether many of them are actually doing material work that adds value to the league or even their franchises as a whole is a different story, and looking out across the league there aren't many owners that can honestly say they are. For the most part they're in this particularly because the NFL prints money regardless of what they do. 

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16 minutes ago, MagicMT said:

Good for their parents. The actual owners haven't done much at all for the "legacy" of the NFL. They basically just profit. 
Players are putting their bodies on the line. They risk getting permanently injuried. 

 

The owners could ALL mysteriously dissapear overnight and you know what? It wouldn't change a thing. 
NFL Players are the ones playing the game. They're faaaaaaar more important to the product than the owners. 

Again, the players are welcome to form their own league.

I support Jeffry Lurie and his Eagles even when my favorite player of all time went to Jacksonville.

Or my 2nd favorite player left to play for the Broncos.

Or my 3rd favorite player was banished by Ray Rhodes and went to the Vikings.

And when my coach was fired and went to the Chiefs.

 

E A G L E S - EAGLES

They are owned by Lurie and affiliated with the NFL. They all get my money now and will in the future.

I buy Red Zone and don't care if they never show Aaron Rodgers.

Antonio Brown makes Red Zone a better product. I did not ask for a refund last season.

 

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1 minute ago, Danger said:

Case in point Alliance of American Football, XFL, etc. 

Hardly anyone here tunes in on a weekly basis to watch the XFL or did so for the AAF

Do you think the difference between the NFL and XFL is better represented by the difference in quality of ownership or the quality of play? 

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