SemperFeist Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, swede700 said: I would rephrase it to say that I want his eventual replacement in sooner rather than later. I've been slightly irritated for years at Spielman's inability to make the starting QB feel uneasy about his position. That's never been the case with any other position, so I don't know what the fear is in doing it to the QB. He never did it with (along with Childress) Tarvaris, never did it with Ponder, never did it with Teddy and has never done it with Kirk as well. He always brings in players who are non-threatening...guys like MBT, Heinicke, Hill, Cassel, Siemian, Sloter, Webb, and now Mannion, Browning and Stanley. None of them really ever were or are going to threaten the starter, outside of injury (which happened with Case Keenum). Teams in general don’t do it when they have an established/set starter. The QB is the default leader in the locker room. He stands alone atop the mountain, so to speak. Add someone with the intent of challenging that and you’re going to fracture the locker room. It’s one thing to draft a QB to develop, which I’d like to see the Vikings do. But adding a QB with the intent of creating an uneasiness in the QB room is just a poor idea. It’s what they mean when they say “if you have two starting QBs, you don’t have any” Edited December 23, 2020 by SemperFeist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 17 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Teams in general don’t do it when they have an established/set starter. The QB is the default leader in the locker room. He stands alone atop the mountain, so to speak. Add someone with the intent of challenging that and you’re going to fracture the locker room. It’s one thing to draft a QB to develop, which I’d like to see the Vikings do. But adding a QB with the intent of creating an uneasiness in the QB room is just a poor idea. It’s what they mean when they say “if you have two starting QBs, you don’t have any” I probably overstated it, but they have had a tendency of not drafting anyone with any development potential. They just either bring in journeymen or draft guys whose upside is at absolute best a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, swede700 said: I probably overstated it, but they have had a tendency of not drafting anyone with any development potential. They just either bring in journeymen or draft guys whose upside is at absolute best a backup. I don’t really blame them. Honestly, the odds of finding a QB in the mid rounds and the late rounds is about the same. 25 (26 depending on where you are on the Wentz/Hurts saga) of the 32 starting QBs in the league were top 50 picks. And when you use a top 50 pick on a QB it’s not so much a plan to develop, it’s an announcement of replacement. Edited December 23, 2020 by SemperFeist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcticNorseman Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 All we need do is look at how Case Keenum did as a back-up filling in for the starter. Yes, he was cocky enough to believe he should be a starter and he was good enough for a season to be one. Whether the media made him a 2nd-class QB, evaluators talking or just his play and persona, he never really eclipsed that true aura of "Starter." The Vikings have had starters as back-ups and it never seems to work out. The only place it's working this year is New Orleans where Jameis Winston by all accounts, has been a model back-up waiting in the wings. In the Vikes case, I would love to see Gardner Minshew sign as a FA in 2 years, or make a trade for him. The other option is to draft a guy in Rd 2 or 3 that has all the tools and some college success. I could see Kyle Trask or Trey Lance slide a bit in the upcoming draft, especially if the BYU kid makes a climb. I don't know enough about Lance to have much of an opinion on him, but by all accounts, he's a stud. Trask is similar Dan Marino to me . . . fires the ball, big and slow of foot, but quick-triggered. Gotta say, he's played big this year . . . excited to watch his bowl game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 My whole thing with the quarterback is can Cousins lead the Vikings to the Super Bowl and win it? Can he put the team on his back and get them to the promised land? Even with as fine a season as Kirk has had this year...I don't see him being "the guy." EVER. If you don't believe that your current quarterback is "the guy," then you keep looking, to hell with his feelings. The thing that frustrates me about the current administration in the FO and the sidelines is that they don't seem to project any urgency in winning the Lombardi trophy and the gaudy rings. There's no real fire on this team since 2009 (except for a brief shining moment in 2017 when Keenum and Diggs gave them a spark). I'd bring in all the competition Cousins needs to feel vulnerable enough that he will be yanked the moment he's not producing at a Super Bowl caliber level. That should be the gold standard for a quarterback on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithVikings28 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 It’s simple. Kirk needs to go. He’s exactly who he’s always been and that’s not going to change. Great guy and good QB but he’s just not a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithVikings28 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 We need to draft a QB round 1 and let him come in a compete. Kirk has yet to feel any challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithVikings28 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 "I've told my teammates that I'd like to be the San Antonio Spurs of the NFL," Cousins said. "Be super boring and maybe people at the end of the season just go ‘wow they had a really good year and none really talked about it.'" -Kirk Cousins I don’t even think he believes in himself that he could win a super bowl. I challenge everyone to answer this question; do you see Kirk Cousins winning a Super Bowl? If your answer is no, then what the heck are we waiting for move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 There's rumors that Kyle Shanahan still wants Kirk Cousins in San Francisco. They odds are that they will be moving on from Jimmy G. What do you demand from SF for Kirk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 38 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: There's rumors that Kyle Shanahan still wants Kirk Cousins in San Francisco. They odds are that they will be moving on from Jimmy G. What do you demand from SF for Kirk? I'd take their 2nd rd pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 3 hours ago, Virginia Viking said: My whole thing with the quarterback is can Cousins lead the Vikings to the Super Bowl and win it? Can he put the team on his back and get them to the promised land? Even with as fine a season as Kirk has had this year...I don't see him being "the guy." EVER. If you don't believe that your current quarterback is "the guy," then you keep looking, to hell with his feelings. The thing that frustrates me about the current administration in the FO and the sidelines is that they don't seem to project any urgency in winning the Lombardi trophy and the gaudy rings. There's no real fire on this team since 2009 (except for a brief shining moment in 2017 when Keenum and Diggs gave them a spark). I'd bring in all the competition Cousins needs to feel vulnerable enough that he will be yanked the moment he's not producing at a Super Bowl caliber level. That should be the gold standard for a quarterback on this team. Someone mentioned a couple of days ago that they'd love to see this offense with the 2017 defense. I agree. With that Defense, this team might go 14-2. But that's never going to happen with Kirk's salary. That's why I'd like to see Kirk's replacement drafted this offseason. Groom him to take over when Kirk's contract expires. Kirk either gets ticked and takes his game to the next level, or he leaves in FA, we get a nice comp pick, and have a cheap starting option with room to grow ready to take over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, wcblack34 said: But that's never going to happen with Kirk's salary. Why can’t it? The Vikings returned everyone from the 2017 defense in 2018 except for Tom Johnson. Who they then replaced with a more expensive player, Sheldon Richardson. With Cousins’ salary on the books. The 2017 defense wasn’t fielded by high priced defenders. It was able to be fielded because of strong drafting. Kirk Cousins’ contract has never been a hinderance to what this team has wanted to do. This team had a plan for paying a high priced QB. The surprise was that it turned out to be Cousins instead of Bridgewater. What’s been a hinderance has been some of the players that they gave larger contracts too declining quicker than expected in their level of play (Rhodes, Joseph), injuries (Hughes, Griffen), and draft picks not developing like expected (Johnson, Holmes, Alexander). Edited December 24, 2020 by SemperFeist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 2 hours ago, SemperFeist said: Why can’t it? The Vikings returned everyone from the 2017 defense in 2018 except for Tom Johnson. Who they then replaced with a more expensive player, Sheldon Richardson. With Cousins’ salary on the books. The 2017 defense wasn’t fielded by high priced defenders. It was able to be fielded because of strong drafting. Kirk Cousins’ contract has never been a hinderance to what this team has wanted to do. This team had a plan for paying a high priced QB. The surprise was that it turned out to be Cousins instead of Bridgewater. What’s been a hinderance has been some of the players that they gave larger contracts too declining quicker than expected in their level of play (Rhodes, Joseph), injuries (Hughes, Griffen), and draft picks not developing like expected (Johnson, Holmes, Alexander). hey now, there's no room here for sensible analysis. reality needs to be driven by bias and emotion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted December 24, 2020 Share Posted December 24, 2020 Kirk Cousins' contract has most certainly cost the team players they would have otherwise been able to keep. That is the nature of the cap. We just saw a huge salary cap purge this year. Will we see more salary cap casualties next season? I don't know, but if the team cuts Anthony Barr to save money and go with Eric Wilson, Barr would just be the next cap victim owing to the cap squeeze that is largely caused by Kirk Cousins' contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted December 25, 2020 Share Posted December 25, 2020 On 12/23/2020 at 9:30 PM, ArcticNorseman said: All we need do is look at how Case Keenum did as a back-up filling in for the starter. Yes, he was cocky enough to believe he should be a starter and he was good enough for a season to be one. Whether the media made him a 2nd-class QB, evaluators talking or just his play and persona, he never really eclipsed that true aura of "Starter." The Vikings have had starters as back-ups and it never seems to work out. The only place it's working this year is New Orleans where Jameis Winston by all accounts, has been a model back-up waiting in the wings. In the Vikes case, I would love to see Gardner Minshew sign as a FA in 2 years, or make a trade for him. The other option is to draft a guy in Rd 2 or 3 that has all the tools and some college success. I could see Kyle Trask or Trey Lance slide a bit in the upcoming draft, especially if the BYU kid makes a climb. I don't know enough about Lance to have much of an opinion on him, but by all accounts, he's a stud. Trask is similar Dan Marino to me . . . fires the ball, big and slow of foot, but quick-triggered. Gotta say, he's played big this year . . . excited to watch his bowl game. I'd still like to see us consider Desmond Ridder in the middle rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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