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Vikings extend QB Kirk Cousins (Two years)


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1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s just hysterical seeing people put Carr and Mayfield ahead of Cousins. 

I would be very happy to trade Kirk Cousins away straight up for Mayfield right now.

Not so sure about Carr, but it seems fair for someone else to prefer Carr over Cousins. They're both just around the Dalton line IMO. Cousins has, to me, clearly moved to the right side of the Dalton line. It isn't as clear to me that Carr is on the right side of the Dalton line, but doesn't seem out of line for someone to see it that way.

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22 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s just hysterical seeing people put Carr and Mayfield ahead of Cousins. 

I personally find it also funny that they are putting Burrows and Herbert above him...Herbert has had 1 good year, while Burrow has played in only 10 games and only won 2 of them, Kirk has had a higher completion percentage in 5 of the last 6 years, and only 1 year in his career lower than a half yard above his Y/A.  While Herbert I can debate, but it's downright comical to put Burrow above him. It invalidates the entire list as far as I'm concerned.

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27 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I would be very happy to trade Kirk Cousins away straight up for Mayfield right now.

Not so sure about Carr, but it seems fair for someone else to prefer Carr over Cousins. They're both just around the Dalton line IMO. Cousins has, to me, clearly moved to the right side of the Dalton line. It isn't as clear to me that Carr is on the right side of the Dalton line, but doesn't seem out of line for someone to see it that way.

I think it is out of line, Kirk has never had those 2 atrocious years that Carr had in 2017 and 2018. especially since becoming a starter.  They may be the same range, but to put Carr above him I believe is out of line.  Carr may have a higher high (even that's debatable), but Cousins has never been as bad as Carr was.  

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24 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I would be very happy to trade Kirk Cousins away straight up for Mayfield right now.

Not so sure about Carr, but it seems fair for someone else to prefer Carr over Cousins. They're both just around the Dalton line IMO. Cousins has, to me, clearly moved to the right side of the Dalton line. It isn't as clear to me that Carr is on the right side of the Dalton line, but doesn't seem out of line for someone to see it that way.

Why?

Statistically, Cousins is better than both. Analytically, Cousins is better than both. Even under the ridiculous “winner” argument Carr and Mayfield fall well below Cousins. 

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1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

Why?

Statistically, Cousins is better than both. Analytically, Cousins is better than both. Even under the ridiculous “winner” argument Carr and Mayfield fall well below Cousins. 

In my opinion it's the argument of potential vs. productivity.   Mayfield hasn't reached yet how good he could get.  In all likelihood, Cousins is not likely to improve his game over what he is able to do right now.  So, the thinking is, I have the opportunity to bring in a QB who has tremendous upside potential vs. someone who I know is going to produce 3500 to 4000 yards a season, generally throw more touchdowns than interceptions, and who knows the offensive system and is comfortable in it.  But, the know entity is not as promising as a potentially great QB, and is not likely to be the guy to get your team over the Super Bowl hump.

I think I would be willing to throw caution to the wind and risk giving up Cousins production for Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Herbert potential.  It's ok if you think differently.

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11 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

I think I would be willing to throw caution to the wind and risk giving up Cousins production for Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Herbert potential.  It's ok if you think differently.

That's fair, but I find it questionable that any of them, outside of potentially Herbert, that have a higher ceiling than Cousins.  I like Mayfield, and I think he'll do good things with Stefanski, but that's more of a reflection of Stefanski than Mayfield himself.  I think with anyone else, he'd be what he was before Kevin...maddeningly inconsistent and underachieving.  Burrow hasn't proven anything to me yet about his ceiling...and I've never cared anything for Murray.  I think he's just a running version of Mayfield...and Kingsbury will not be the guy to bring the best out of him.  Herbert has the most potential, but we'll have to wait and see.  

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14 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

But, the know entity is not as promising as a potentially great QB

But what about Mayfield, even remotely, suggests that he has that potential? Even in his best year, Mayfield was at the level that Cousins has typically has been. 

So, I don’t see why his potential should be viewed as anything greater than what Kirk Cousins has been over his career. And Mayfield has yet to reach the level of play that Cousins has displayed as a member of the Vikings. 

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1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s just hysterical seeing people put Carr and Mayfield ahead of Cousins. 

I think it's wrong to put Lamar Jackson, Matt Stafford, Ryan Tannehill, Mayfield, Murray, Burroughs, Herbert ahead of him. Wilson, Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, Watson, and Allen are the clear cut top 6. Kirk is somewhere in the top 10 after those guys. 

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2 hours ago, Virginia Viking said:

In my opinion it's the argument of potential vs. productivity.   Mayfield hasn't reached yet how good he could get.  In all likelihood, Cousins is not likely to improve his game over what he is able to do right now.  So, the thinking is, I have the opportunity to bring in a QB who has tremendous upside potential vs. someone who I know is going to produce 3500 to 4000 yards a season, generally throw more touchdowns than interceptions, and who knows the offensive system and is comfortable in it.  But, the know entity is not as promising as a potentially great QB, and is not likely to be the guy to get your team over the Super Bowl hump.

I think I would be willing to throw caution to the wind and risk giving up Cousins production for Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Herbert potential.  It's ok if you think differently.

I don't believe Cousins has reached his potential or his ceiling. He's never played behind a complete offense. Look at what he did last year with the turnstiles we had in front of him. Give him average to slightly-above-average protection with Cook, JJ and Thielen and see what he's made of. Does anyone really think Burrow/Carr/Mayfield would have done better on last year's Vikings team than Cousins did? I don't. 

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11 minutes ago, wcblack34 said:

I don't believe Cousins has reached his potential or his ceiling. He's never played behind a complete offense. Look at what he did last year with the turnstiles we had in front of him. Give him average to slightly-above-average protection with Cook, JJ and Thielen and see what he's made of. Does anyone really think Burrow/Carr/Mayfield would have done better on last year's Vikings team than Cousins did? I don't. 

Big difference between Mayfield and Burrow is they are significantly younger. In five years, both peaks could be much higher than Cousins right now. As for Carr, I don’t think he has a case over Cousins. 

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Mayfield had a great year last year behind the number 1 offensive line in the NFL and a couple of fantastic running backs. His previous years when he had to face some adversity he wasn't great.

 

Cousins can have a top 7 qb season with an okay offensive line and our weapons 

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10 hours ago, Virginia Viking said:

In my opinion it's the argument of potential vs. productivity.   Mayfield hasn't reached yet how good he could get.  In all likelihood, Cousins is not likely to improve his game over what he is able to do right now.  So, the thinking is, I have the opportunity to bring in a QB who has tremendous upside potential vs. someone who I know is going to produce 3500 to 4000 yards a season, generally throw more touchdowns than interceptions, and who knows the offensive system and is comfortable in it.  But, the know entity is not as promising as a potentially great QB, and is not likely to be the guy to get your team over the Super Bowl hump.

I think I would be willing to throw caution to the wind and risk giving up Cousins production for Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Herbert potential.  It's ok if you think differently.

You got it. Cousins is a pretty good QB, but he isn't good enough. I'll take my chances on guys that have a better chance of being good enough. Herbert, Mayfield, and Burrows are three such guys. At some point, they'll be known commodities too and then they'll be much the same as Cousins if they haven't improved. They still have time. Cousins, IMO, is what he is. I will agree that Cousins would look a lot better with better pass protection. That is true of any QB.

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The point of potential shouldn’t even be a factor in ability rankings. It’s a different discussion all together. Sure, young quarterbacks like Burrow and Mayfield may have the potential to be better quarterbacks down the road, but potential goes unrealized in the NFL far to often to talk about it as a certainty. 

Right now, Kirk Cousins is a better QB than Derek Carr, Baker Mayfield, and Joe Burrow. So, when making rankings based on current QB abilities, I’m not sure how anyone can rank those QBs, who haven’t shown greater ability, over someone who has.

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