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49ers trade Buckner to Colts

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47 minutes ago, N4L said:

I would have rather traded AA to the colts for #34 and given buck 21m a year 

This wasn't a bad move necessarily, but goddamn. There is a reason buck is an allpro and AA hasn't made a probowl. That's worth 4m in my eyes 

100% agreed. 

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50 minutes ago, N4L said:

I would have rather traded AA to the colts for #34 and given buck 21m a year 

This wasn't a bad move necessarily, but goddamn. There is a reason buck is an allpro and AA hasn't made a probowl. That's worth 4m in my eyes 

It's a fair point. I don't think this is one of those cases where either side is wrong. I think it'd be harder to argue for #34 with AA than it is to argue #13 for Buck. As others have pointed out, Buck was legit outplayed by AA last year. Buck I still peg as being the better player but the fact that can even be said points to how close in skill they are and how well those two have developed.

The other thing is the available talent and the moves that can be made at 13 compared too 34 are much, much better. Especially if we end up with Herbert sitting at our pick. 

 

But this is hard to stomach. I like the trade and I love Buckner. 

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Who's to say anyone would offer a second round pick let alone #34 for Armstead? Honestly I don't think that was on the table. I don't think there is any question, as evidence by everyone's disappointment in losing DeFo (whether you think it was right or not), that DeFo is a much more valuable player; which is why we were able to get pick #13.  

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Honesty decisions like this is why a franchise like the Patriots has been succesfull for so long. Trading away one of your best players isn't a popular decision or a easy one but simply put if you don't feel there is a chance to reach a deal you have to make that trade at the right time. Pick #13 is a really valuable asset and makes it easier to make different moves both in the draft and in free agency/trading. Also you get another talented guy on a controlled 5 year contract for much cheaper than value if they turn out to be as good as planned. Is it riskier than signing a guy like Buckner to the deal yeah ofcourse but you can't pay every guy if you draft well.

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1 minute ago, Gore Whore 21 said:

Who's to say anyone would offer a second round pick let alone #34 for Armstead? Honestly I don't think that was on the table. I don't think there is any question, as evidence by everyone's disappointment in losing DeFo (whether you think it was right or not), that DeFo is a much more valuable player; which is why we were able to get pick #13.  

I believe Buckner is more valuable than the 13th pick to this team regardless of what Armstead may or may not have fetched. Having this defensive line back was key to our defense returning to form in 2020.  I think this is a downgrade overall. But, we will see what the team has in mind. I trust the braintrust around here. 

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10 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

I believe Buckner is more valuable than the 13th pick to this team regardless of what Armstead may or may not have fetched. Having this defensive line back was key to our defense returning to form in 2020.  I think this is a downgrade overall. But, we will see what the team has in mind. I trust the braintrust around here. 

There has to be another move coming. I mean the DL is still going to be very good, but definitely a big loss in Buckner. So say we trade for Diggs/OBJ with 31st pick and then take a top level tackle that plays guard next season, would you consider the team getting better or worst? Right now no doubt the team is worst from the day we played the Super Bowl. 

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

There has to be another move coming. I mean the DL is still going to be very good, but definitely a big loss in Buckner. So say we trade for Diggs/OBJ with 31st pick and then take a top level tackle that plays guard next season, would you consider the team getting better or worst? Right now no doubt the team is worst from the day we played the Super Bowl. 

Honestly no point trading for a Diggs or OBJ with this draft. Having players on their first contract is the way to get longevity and keep performing at a high level. I know everyone and their mother wants to have these big name high level WR's but in terms of money spend to result on the pitch WR is one of the most overrated positions there is. You need good guys sure but you don't need star power at WR with the way the rules are for the CB's. These days its so much easier for a lesser WR to get any separation with scheming and if you have a good QB they will elevate their receivers. 

 

Also with the spread being so prevalent in college you see more and more that top athletes aren't being put as RB but at WR where they are getting the ball in space. Offcourse the route tree usually isn't up te scratch because of it but overall the level of receivers gets better year by year.

Edited by Justone2

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7 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

Honestly no point trading for a Diggs or OBJ with this draft. Having players on their first contract is the way to get longevity and keep performing at a high level. I know everyone and their mother wants to have these big name high level WR's but in terms of money spend to result on the pitch WR is one of the most overrated positions there is. You need good guys sure but you don't need star power at WR with the way the rules are for the CB's. These days its so much easier for a lesser WR to get any separation with scheming and if you have a good QB they will elevate their receivers. 

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Its kinda why I hope we don't go WR@13. But the thing is our WR room is extremely young as is. Deebo and Hurd are going into their second year. James and Pettis are in their 3rd year. Bourne and Taylor are the 'vets', going into their 4th year. 

It isn't about star power as it is about adding a veteran presence to stabilize the group. That's what Sanders did when we traded for him. It instantly coaxed production out of a very young group. I've stated since Shanny's been our coach that you don't need top tier talent at position to win. Not with this scheme. But I do believe we need to add a proven commodity to the room. If he happens to be a supremely talented vet, I wont be mad. But he should be talented enough to start or at the least compete for a starting spot. The days of signing vets like Jordan Matthews should be gone, given how many young WRs we have that have been in this system for successive years now.

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5 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I wholeheartedly agree with you. Its kinda why I hope we don't go WR@13. But the thing is our WR room is extremely young as is. Deebo and Hurd are going into their second year. James and Pettis are in their 3rd year. Bourne and Taylor are the 'vets', going into their 4th year. 

It isn't about star power as it is about adding a veteran presence to stabilize the group. That's what Sanders did when we traded for him. It instantly coaxed production out of a very young group. I've stated since Shanny's been our coach that you don't need top tier talent at position to win. Not with this scheme. But I do believe we need to add a proven commodity to the room. If he happens to be a supremely talented vet, I wont be mad. But he should be talented enough to start or at the least compete for a starting spot. The days of signing vets like Jordan Matthews should be gone, given how many young WRs we have that have been in this system for successive years now.

Which i totally agree with. Trading a valuable commodity like 31 along with paying 12-15 million is what i am arguing against which would be the situation with OBJ or Diggs. The problem with this FA class at WR is that there isn't much behind the top few guys. I would prefer to keep Sanders as that veteran presence but it will really depend on the price point. A guy i think makes a ton of sense is Taylor Gabriel who will be reasonably cheap and has the experience in this system. In the Matthews category i wouldn't mind giving a guy like Cody Latimer a shot in TC.

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7 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

Which i totally agree with. Trading a valuable commodity like 31 along with paying 12-15 million is what i am arguing against which would be the situation with OBJ or Diggs. The problem with this FA class at WR is that there isn't much behind the top few guys. I would prefer to keep Sanders as that veteran presence but it will really depend on the price point. A guy i think makes a ton of sense is Taylor Gabriel who will be reasonably cheap and has the experience in this system. In the Matthews category i wouldn't mind giving a guy like Cody Latimer a shot in TC.

Those guys aren't going to help this team though. We can get guys like that anytime.

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58 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

I believe Buckner is more valuable than the 13th pick to this team regardless of what Armstead may or may not have fetched. Having this defensive line back was key to our defense returning to form in 2020.  I think this is a downgrade overall. But, we will see what the team has in mind. I trust the braintrust around here. 

I'm not sure Buckner on a top value contract is worth that to this team. I think that I understand your position on Buckner. You hold that he's up there (or better) than guys like Fletcher Cox and Chris Jones. He's not Aaron Donald, but no one is. I very much like Buckner, and he's been a quality player that has been very available with a great temperament for the team. He does eat a bunch of double teams on pass rushing downs, affecting his pressure rate. But he also has never quite been in those guys class in pressure rates and they also see a bunch of doubles. The contract will look better as the cap expands to some extent, but I don't think even at the end of it, he'll be worth it. It's rough getting there for full time defensive tackles.

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2 minutes ago, Incarcerated_Scarface said:

Those guys aren't going to help this team though. We can get guys like that anytime.

Correct. And I do hope we do go after Gabriel. But Gabriel is a niche guy. A speed WR. He alone is not enough. You need a guy capable of running the whole route tree. That can a be a threat at either outside position and be able to work the middle of the field. That's why guys like Diggs and OBJ have been brought up. Not a fan of OBJ but I would gladly take Diggs. That's why I was pissed about the Hopkins trade because that made of ton of sense for us, in light of what has transpired today.

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Just now, Incarcerated_Scarface said:

Those guys aren't going to help this team though. We can get guys like that anytime.

You can't pay a bucket load of money to every guy and for every position. You have to make decisions and for me WR isn't a position i want to spend big on. We have the best TE in the NFL who will be getting paid like a top receiver coming next year(deservedly so because he makes our offense what it is). 

 

Those guys will help just not as much as a guy like Diggs or OBJ probably would. But when you look at the cap site of thing do you really want to have over 1/8 of your cap being tight up in a WR and a TE? You have to make choices and this is one of those where i feel just like with RB's most of the time it isn't worth paying top dollar for them. Last year Baker Mayfield had two great receivers in Landry and OBJ(combined cap hit of almost 30 mil(almost 1/6th of the cap)) and still performed terrible. Paying one guy either TE or WR big money yeah go for it. In our case that is Kittle so while we no doubt get better if we get a guy like Diggs or OBJ in way more than if we bring in a guy like Gabriel from a cap perspective it isn't a smart idea. Its about do you want to be the Rams of last/this year or do you want to be like the Patriots. Smart cap management and managing your resources is what keeps you competing for a long time. Throwing those resources away for short term succes is such a boom or bust way of going about it and either brings you the Superbowl(Eagles 2018) or brings you nothing(Rams this year).

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Posted (edited)

Do you guys think Kinlaw is a target at #13 ? The D line could be just as good with a cheap(ish) guy for another 5 years.

Edited by OneTwoSixFive
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If paying an experienced and studly WR1 12 mil a year nets us a SB ring or two over the next 3 years, then do it, and worry later about cap excess. 

We are so close, obviously. ALL IN. 

Expensive RBs can kick rocks, and we won't need to pay big to guys like Kwon and Sherman forever. 

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