JAF-N72EX Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I just went back and watched every play of his in NFCC game against the 2nd best defense in the league last year. A few things I took away from it; 1) He looked faster than I thought he would for a player his age-- certainly not a burner or anything but not noticeably a sloth like either. 2) Lined up all over the field. 3) The reported blocking concerns became very evident throughout. 4) He can find open space against zone coverage but cannot create space on his own and because of this he does not do well against man coverage. He was open twice and Rodgers just checked down. Three times if you count the option double-screen play (I don't think there was a right or wrong answer there though). 5) Was used in routes very similar to what Nagy like to run. Stick routes, screens, inside slants over the middle, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 11 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I’m less concerned with the stat line with Graham than I am the impact on the offense. If Graham gives us 3 catches and 25 yards every week but 2 of those catches are 3rd down conversions we probably don’t make last year then that adds real value. Not $8M a year value, but something clearly tangible we were sorely missing. Can’t imagine it was just me but it felt like we stalled out on offense in plus territory between the 50 and 30 at least once a week in 2019. Every 3rd down conversion Graham can add there is maybe the difference between points and punting, and maybe between winning and losing. This is what I'm seeing as well. He's not the Jimmy Graham of old but then if he was he'd be costing us twice what we're paying him or we wouldn't have him at all. With his size and reach he's useful for two things. First down catches on 2nd or 3rd and long and as an end zone target. I think it's pretty clear we're moving on from Shaheen so at the very least Graham replaces him for now and at best Burton seems 50/50 to ever bounce back and become the guy we paid for and a kid like Horsted is still a little to raw to be counted on as a starter so as long as Graham can play he'll be of some use. Kinda wonder why we didn't make an offer to Olsen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, soulman said: This is what I'm seeing as well. He's not the Jimmy Graham of old but then if he was he'd be costing us twice what we're paying him or we wouldn't have him at all. With his size and reach he's useful for two things. First down catches on 2nd or 3rd and long and as an end zone target. I think it's pretty clear we're moving on from Shaheen so at the very least Graham replaces him for now and at best Burton seems 50/50 to ever bounce back and become the guy we paid for and a kid like Horsted is still a little to raw to be counted on as a starter so as long as Graham can play he'll be of some use. Kinda wonder why we didn't make an offer to Olsen. Had we given $7M in 2020 to a more broken down Greg Olsen instead of $9M over 2 years to Jimmy Graham to fill the same exact role fans would have rejoiced. 🤷♂️ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I've been thinking about this, but could we have signed Graham with the thoughts of Burton being a June 1 cut and the Bears just eat the dead cap cost to get rid of him? I'm not great with the cap numbers, but I'm sure one of you fine gentleman will help me out with this thought. That's the only way I can see this as being a decent signing. The fact that he is relatively healthy and we are just gonna eat Burton's contract to get rid of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, AZBearsFan said: Had we given $7M in 2020 to a more broken down Greg Olsen instead of $9M over 2 years to Jimmy Graham to fill the same exact role fans would have rejoiced. 🤷♂️ Is Olsen that badly destroyed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, soulman said: Is Olsen that badly destroyed? He’s missed 18 games the last 3 seasons and isn’t the same player physically he was. He’s absolutely in the same stage of his career as Graham is where he can be functional but not good. His catch ratio was the same as Graham’s in 2019 and his yards/target was slightly less. He also isn’t a good blocker. The difference between the two at this juncture is basically in name only yet people were pissed we didn’t sign Olsen where they’re mad we did sign Graham for basically the same money (and maybe less in 2020 depending on structure). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 33 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: He’s missed 18 games the last 3 seasons and isn’t the same player physically he was. He’s absolutely in the same stage of his career as Graham is where he can be functional but not good. His catch ratio was the same as Graham’s in 2019 and his yards/target was slightly less. He also isn’t a good blocker. The difference between the two at this juncture is basically in name only yet people were pissed we didn’t sign Olsen where they’re mad we did sign Graham for basically the same money (and maybe less in 2020 depending on structure). I see either as a desperation move so it makes little difference I guess other than the fact that Graham has actually been available whereas Olsen has not and that alone is all the excuse we'd need for going with Graham over Olsen. We could have John Mackey and Mike Ditka in their prime but if both missed over half their starts what good would they do? To be honest I don't think much of this upcoming TE class at all. I don't think there's even one guy who rates above a 3rd round pick so in no way would I prioritize TE in the draft. We've taken care of our immediate needs so I'd hope that from the collection of younger guys we have at least one would eventually stand out and become an eventual starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 36 minutes ago, soulman said: I see either as a desperation move so it makes little difference I guess other than the fact that Graham has actually been available whereas Olsen has not and that alone is all the excuse we'd need for going with Graham over Olsen. We could have John Mackey and Mike Ditka in their prime but if both missed over half their starts what good would they do? To be honest I don't think much of this upcoming TE class at all. I don't think there's even one guy who rates above a 3rd round pick so in no way would I prioritize TE in the draft. We've taken care of our immediate needs so I'd hope that from the collection of younger guys we have at least one would eventually stand out and become an eventual starter. Actually it seems lately with TE position 1 or 2 rookies will be quite good. But who that is will be a complete mystery to everyone and they will likely be later round picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 30 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Actually it seems lately with TE position 1 or 2 rookies will be quite good. But who that is will be a complete mystery to everyone and they will likely be later round picks. The more complex the position becomes the more it tends to favor those who have the intelligence to understand it but teams are always gonna be hung up on the measurables which is how we ended up with Shaheen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 29 minutes ago, soulman said: The more complex the position becomes the more it tends to favor those who have the intelligence to understand it but teams are always gonna be hung up on the measurables which is how we ended up with Shaheen. The top TEs have been mostly disappointing relative to their draft slots. But maybe it is just a really hard position to project. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsDen1-99 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 No wasted comment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Romen Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 8 hours ago, dll2000 said: The top TEs have been mostly disappointing relative to their draft slots. But maybe it is just a really hard position to project. It's just that it takes 3 or so years to get going, it seems. Except for obviously Kittle and Gronk. Hockenson and Fant were supposed to be plug and play... Nothing yet. Ebron/Pettigrew for the Lions... Nothing. Kittle a 4th round pick, instant success. Just weird. That's why I would've been perfectly fine if they had traded for a guy, you're getting someone with some traction in the league (I would've even been okay if they gave up whatever to top AZ's offer for Hopkins, that would've erased any need for a TE... But I digress) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulman Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 12 hours ago, The_Romen said: It's just that it takes 3 or so years to get going, it seems. Except for obviously Kittle and Gronk. Hockenson and Fant were supposed to be plug and play... Nothing yet. Ebron/Pettigrew for the Lions... Nothing. Kittle a 4th round pick, instant success. Just weird. That's why I would've been perfectly fine if they had traded for a guy, you're getting someone with some traction in the league (I would've even been okay if they gave up whatever to top AZ's offer for Hopkins, that would've erased any need for a TE... But I digress) I don't think it matters what skill position on offense we talk about players are either a fit with the team who drafts them or they're not. We see all kinds of players who under perform their draft status then move on and become far more productive with another team. There are always exceptions who will be All Pros anywhere they play but there are many who won't be. Team who get too enamored of Combine performance and over look football performance often end up with guys they believe they can teach to play better and end up disappointed when they can't. White and Shaheen seem to be two examples of this. Right now look no further than Nick Foles whose thrived in Andy Reid based offenses run by Reid acolytes but hasn't done nearly as well under other coaches in systems that don't fit his skills as well. Amari Cooper began to have issues playing in Oakland with Carr but just signed the biggest contract any WR has ever been given after only 1 1/2 seasons in Dallas. Nagy's offense apparently requires a very specific skill set for his "U" TE and so far we haven't found anyone who can produce for him like Kelce did who was a 3rd round pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCbear Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 On 3/18/2020 at 7:31 AM, AZBearsFan said: Had we given $7M in 2020 to a more broken down Greg Olsen instead of $9M over 2 years to Jimmy Graham to fill the same exact role fans would have rejoiced. 🤷♂️ love this signing ! he will help alot in redzone and 3rd downs. He has plenty of game left and will add immensely to what we have at TE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 27 minutes ago, SLCbear said: love this signing ! he will help alot in redzone and 3rd downs. He has plenty of game left and will add immensely to what we have at TE Who are we talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.