Sllim Pickens Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Lionized said: 4 m/yr vs 13.2m/yr I see this as an absolute win. I think its 8m per year, not total. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: I think its 8m per year, not total. Another New England tie to Detroit: Free agent defensive lineman Danny Shelton is signing with the #Lions on a 2 year deal for $8M, per @RosenhausSports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lionized said: Another New England tie to Detroit: Free agent defensive lineman Danny Shelton is signing with the #Lions on a 2 year deal for $8M, per @RosenhausSports. aha, I saw the per and attributed it to the salary, not the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, Sllim Pickens said: aha, I saw the per and attributed it to the salary, not the source. You made me a little worried there lol. I was praying it wasn’t 8M a year while I was looking it up. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 26 minutes ago, Lionized said: Athletically, there are two uncommon measurements that are common between Danny Shelton and Nick Williams (the Lions two new DT's Explosion Score (bench+VJ+BJ) Shelton: 72.42 Williams: 70.25 Short Shuttle (lateral quickness) Shelton: 4.65 Williams: 4.65 I don't know where you got your numbers, but this is what I'm seeing in my worksheet: Shelton: Explosion Score (Height and Weight Adjusted) - 157.52 (Between 40th and 50th percentile) Williams: Explosion Score (Height and Weight Adjusted) - 174.45 (Top 10th - 20th percentile) Agility Score (Short Shuttle + 3 Cone) Shelton - 12.80 (Below 40th percentile) Williams - 12.03 (top 20th - 30th percentile) Williams is the more explosive and agile player athletically, even if you account for the discrepancy in size. Whether that translates onto the field is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Karnage84 said: I don't know where you got your numbers, but this is what I'm seeing in my worksheet: Shelton: Explosion Score (Height and Weight Adjusted) - 157.52 (Between 40th and 50th percentile) Williams: Explosion Score (Height and Weight Adjusted) - 174.45 (Top 10th - 20th percentile) Agility Score (Short Shuttle + 3 Cone) Shelton - 12.80 (Below 40th percentile) Williams - 12.03 (top 20th - 30th percentile) Williams is the more explosive and agile player athletically, even if you account for the discrepancy in size. Whether that translates onto the field is a different story. Eric Schlitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: I don't know where you got your numbers, but this is what I'm seeing in my worksheet: Shelton: Explosion Score (Height and Weight Adjusted) - 157.52 (Between 40th and 50th percentile) Williams: Explosion Score (Height and Weight Adjusted) - 174.45 (Top 10th - 20th percentile) Agility Score (Short Shuttle + 3 Cone) Shelton - 12.80 (Below 40th percentile) Williams - 12.03 (top 20th - 30th percentile) Williams is the more explosive and agile player athletically, even if you account for the discrepancy in size. Whether that translates onto the field is a different story. He’s been doing a lot of breakdowns here the last hour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Lionized said: He’s been doing a lot of breakdowns here the last hour. PFF? I have my spreadsheet of 265 DT's from 2011 - 2020. They're broken down into top 5%, top 10%, top 20%, top 30%, top 40%, top 50% and top 60% or 95%, 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%.. however you want to look at it. My explosion score is the Bench+Vertical+Broad as a total, adjusted for Height and Weight. Then it is colour coded for where they fit in the percentiles against the other 264+1 DT's. Same goes for the agility score. Essentially, how does this guys performance measure up against every other combine: top tier, above average, average, below average, etc.? The H/W adjustment is to account for guys being tall and thick doing amazing things for a player their size vs a smaller guy running similar numbers and then treating them the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: PFF? I have my spreadsheet of 265 DT's from 2011 - 2020. They're broken down into top 5%, top 10%, top 20%, top 30%, top 40%, top 50% and top 60% or 95%, 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%.. however you want to look at it. My explosion score is the Bench+Vertical+Broad as a total, adjusted for Height and Weight. Then it is colour coded for where they fit in the percentiles against the other 264+1 DT's. Same goes for the agility score. Essentially, how does this guys performance measure up against every other combine: top tier, above average, average, below average, etc.? The H/W adjustment is to account for guys being tall and thick doing amazing things for a player their size vs a smaller guy running similar numbers and then treating them the same. Why do you use bench as part of explosion? As far as I knew, they don't measure barbell speed which would be the explosion number you are looking for. Number of reps are not going to show explosion, but muscle endurance. However, I'm guessing at what data you are using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, LionArkie said: Why do you use bench as part of explosion? As far as I knew, they don't measure barbell speed which would be the explosion number you are looking for. Number of reps are not going to show explosion, but muscle endurance. However, I'm guessing at what data you are using. There are other scouting groups that use it in the equation, which is a factor. If you're doing the bench press right then there is an explosive element as you're bringing in other parts of your body to hit those numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: There are other scouting groups that use it in the equation, which is a factor. If you're doing the bench press right then there is an explosive element as you're bringing in other parts of your body to hit those numbers. Agreed, and the optimal force output is measured by the time it takes to move the bar off the chest for a 1 rep max. There are tools that measure the force output of lifts. Anyways, I was just curious, but if it's based on the combine bench press I'm going to say the number is completely bogus. There is tons of information out there on this. Powerlifting was a hobby of mine, but now I'm just fat and need to work out. Edited March 18, 2020 by LionArkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, LionArkie said: Agreed, and the force output is measured by the time it takes to move the bar off the chest for a 1 rep max. There are tools that measure the force output of lifts. Anyways, I was just curious, but if it's based on the combine bench press I'm going to say the number is completely bogus. There is tons of information out there on this. Powerlifting was a hobby of mine, but now I'm just fat and need to work out. It's just one part of the overall metric. It's only 1/3 of the overall equation and it's a constant measurement for all of the guys. Your points are valid and I would probably not have included it if it wasn't a part of an initial equation/scoring metric. I think for PFF, they might go "what's the maximum VJ+BP+BJ for a DT" = Maximum# then go Prospect #/Maximum # = PFF Score out of 100. That's just a guess but it feels similar to what the RAS guy does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Karnage84 said: PFF? I have my spreadsheet of 265 DT's from 2011 - 2020. They're broken down into top 5%, top 10%, top 20%, top 30%, top 40%, top 50% and top 60% or 95%, 90%, 80%, 70%, 60%, 50%, 40%.. however you want to look at it. My explosion score is the Bench+Vertical+Broad as a total, adjusted for Height and Weight. Then it is colour coded for where they fit in the percentiles against the other 264+1 DT's. Same goes for the agility score. Essentially, how does this guys performance measure up against every other combine: top tier, above average, average, below average, etc.? The H/W adjustment is to account for guys being tall and thick doing amazing things for a player their size vs a smaller guy running similar numbers and then treating them the same. He’s an editor for lion wire. If you have Twitter, I would be interested to see how your numbers compare to his break down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Lionized said: He’s an editor for lion wire. If you have Twitter, I would be interested to see how your numbers compare to his break down. No Twitter. I try to stay off of social media. It's 95% a waste of time IMO and nobody truly cares about what I'm doing or my opinion. You guys just get to be inundated with anything Lions-related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionized Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: No Twitter. I try to stay off of social media. It's 95% a waste of time IMO and nobody truly cares about what I'm doing or my opinion. You guys just get to be inundated with anything Lions-related. Understood. I really enjoy your post especially when you are able to bring in information, from PFF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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