Jump to content

Bears to trade 4th Round Pick to Jaguars for Nick Foles


RJ_11

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

That was terrible. Orton was SO much better. And if the Bears would have stuck with him, we may have had something. 

Agreed. People got hung up when Grossman put up MVP numbers for that short half-season stretch. People are doing the same with Foles because he had one great season and one postseason stretch of note surrounded by mediocre play. 

 

4 minutes ago, CBears019 said:

So, FIRST this guy beats Iowa in a game like ten years ago.  NOW, he thinks he can just waltz in here and take Robbie Gould’s number?  This freakin guy i tell ya....

giphy.gif

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, soulman said:

Just a Fan said: For example, I don't believe half of the crap that is posted by the media these days. Because most media reps try and use the term "source" as a way to infuse their very own opinions without actually having a source and hope to hell it sticks in order to look like they know what they are talking about.
 

This is a great segway from the previous response. I don't believe this for a second simply because If you heard anything about Pace approaching Dalton a few weeks ago then it was most likely bull because that would be considered illegal tampering. But that's for another subject and is essentially a meaningless one to have at this point.

I forgot to deal with this part specifically in my earlier response so I will now because it segues perfectly with what I said about commenting about something without knowing the NFL rules.  But don't take this personally OK?

It would not have been tampering under FA rules.  Why?  Because Dalton is under contract for 2020 and would not become a FA unless Cincy released him which they had not done.  Instead Cincy was actively soliciting trade partners for Dalton and the Bears were one.  Whenever a team gives permission to a player to seek a trade or they themselves seek a trade no tampering can take place and that should be obvious.  So in all likelihood the media reports were quite correct.

Edited by soulman
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

"Good Ol' Sally", eh?

I agree with your position, but wow...weird analogy. :D

I touched on this before. Foles was clearly brought back too early, and Minshew might be a franchise quarterback. Not that I'm saying Foles isn't, or ever will be, but--HEY--that makes things complicated for Jacksonville, no? 

LOL......well at one time or another in our lives haven't we all ended up with a "Good Ol' Sally" kind of compromise?  And of course it's a weird analogy.  I have a reputation of using those to hold up, haha.  A lady friend of mine once told me that even though she loved my analogies she still thought that I was a seriously flawed human being.  OK, so guilty as charged but that was the end of my holding off 'til she had her second orgasm. >:(  xD

As for Foles and JAX.  Clearly they signed him in hopes of returning to the playoffs.  When he was injured in game one and they were forced to start Minshew that pretty much ended that hope for 2019 despite Minshew having played better than expected.  What may have been a 10-6 season or better under Foles ended up as a 6-10 season and a QB dilemma. If they have to rebuild anyway why pay Foles over $20 mil per year vs an NFL minimum to Minshew and use the savings to rebuild faster just as we did after releasing Cutler.

With so many teams shopping for QBs I doubt JAX would have simply released Foles.  They would have waited 'til the right suitor came knocking just as we did and then made a trade.  I've seen the media question the price of a 4th round pick but apparently at this moment that was their bottom line and we were more desperate to make the trade now than they were.  If we refused JAX could just as easily have said OK no trade today,  call us back when you're ready to meet our price.  It was a simple case of supply and demand.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, soulman said:

I forgot to deal with this part specifically in my earlier response so I will now because it segues perfectly with what I said about commenting about something without knowing the NFL rules.  But don't take this personally OK?

It would not have been tampering under FA rules.  Why?  Because Dalton is under contract for 2020 and would not become a FA unless Cincy released him which they had not done.  Instead Cincy was actively soliciting trade partners for Dalton and the Bears were one.  Whenever a team gives permission to a player to seek a trade or they themselves seek a trade no tampering can take place and that should be obvious.  So in all likelihood the media reports were quite correct.

Did they give Dalton permission to seek a trade or negotiate with other teams? I know CAR did for Newton but the last I heard the Bengals were just going to work with Dalton when a trade offer came to them. 

 

I think that is the hang up between both your and AZ's posts.  Pace could not approach Dalton without CIN giving that permission and I haven't seen anything saying they had. He'd have had to contact them directly or it would be considered illegal tampering, even if they were actively seeking a trade partner for him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

Did they give Dalton permission to seek a trade or negotiate with other teams? I know CAR did for Newton but the last I heard the Bengals were just going to work with Dalton when a trade offer came to them. 

 

I think that is the hang up between both your and AZ's posts.  Pace could not approach Dalton without CIN giving that permission and I haven't seen anything saying they had. He'd have had to contact them directly or it would be considered illegal tampering, even if they were actively seeking a trade partner for him. 

What's been reported is that Cincy would seek to trade Dalton to a team of his preference.  Of course that can only be guaranteed if they refuse to trade him elsewhere.  NFL contracts don't have no trade clauses.  In the end Dalton would have to accept being traded to whomever Cincy chose. 

Once a team has declared that it's seeking trade partners tampering can no longer apply.  Cincy might have been handling negotiations as far as fair trade compensation goes but Dalton's agent may also have reached out to teams or been contacted by them as well.  We don't know.  But if you're actively trying to trade a guy how can you make a tampering claim if another team contacts his agent directly over say a contract matter?

It wouldn't fly.

Edited by soulman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, SLCbear said:

LT: above average coming off bad year

LG: probowler coming off bad year

C: probowl-lite as Rookie coming off bad year

RG: coming off a bad year, will lilely draft very early

RT: solid above average coming off a bad year

Primary Backup:  Coward extremely versatile lots of potential, coming off a bad year

 

Whats common denominator here ? How can every single spot be coming off of a bad year ?? 

One common denominator that was uncovered was how some of the pre-snap motion Nagy or whomever had schemed was actually bringing more defenders into "the box" on plays specifically designed as runs.  You can't block 8 defenders with 5 or 6 blockers.

Coaching has to accept it's share of the blame and to his credit Nagy has at least to the point of bringing in more qualified position coaches with some specialization in areas in which we were weak.  I'm still opposed to him continuing to call plays offensively but then I'm opposed to any HC calling plays and having that narrow his focus vs coaching the entire game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, soulman said:

What's been reported is that Cincy would seek to trade Dalton to a team of his preference.  Of course that can only be guaranteed if they refuse to trade him elsewhere.  NFL contracts don't have no trade clauses.  In the end Dalton would have to accept being traded to whomever Cincy chose. 

Once a team has declared that it's seeking trade partners tampering can no longer apply.  Cincy might have been handling negotiations as far as fair trade compensation goes but Dalton's agent may also have reached out to teams or been contacted by them as well.  We don't know.  But if you're actively trying to trade a guy how can you make a tampering claim if another team contacts his agent directly over say a contract matter?

It wouldn't fly.

Gotcha. I figured there wouldnt be a big market so they'd draft Burrow, wait till after the draft and hope someone overspends for him because they missed on the prospect(s) they liked.

 

Kind of an a**hole thing to do (to Dalton specifically), but it would be good business too imo. 

Edited by Sugashane
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, SLCbear said:

LT: above average coming off bad year

LG: probowler coming off bad year

C: probowl-lite as Rookie coming off bad year

RG: coming off a bad year, will lilely draft very early

RT: solid above average coming off a bad year

Primary Backup:  Coward extremely versatile lots of potential, coming off a bad year

 

Whats common denominator here ? How can every single spot be coming off of a bad year ?? 

This is what DLL is talking about when he talks about his coaching experience. These guys weren't in sync all offseason (Babies, school, rehab...) So they were already behind. Then they had terrible coaching and even worse drills... That falls on Nagy. DLL said they should've just done individual drills because these guys were missing blocks all. Season. Long. They got their ***** kicked by the amazing defense all summer and it ruined any progress.

OL has to be in sync, this year I hope Castillo sees what DLL saw. The amount of free rushers I saw last year was astounding. Hopefully less distractions this off-season too... Not likely with this pandemic, but hopefully 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Gotcha. I figured there wouldnt be a big market so they'd draft Burrow, wait till after the draft and hope someone overspends for him because they missed on the prospect(s) they liked.

 

Kind of an a**hole thing to do (to Dalton specifically), but it would be good business too imo. 

That's pretty much the position both Cincy and JAX were in.  In the end it seems the only FA left with significant starting experience was Winston.  The others; Dalton, Foles, and Newton are all under contract and limited to being had via trade only.  That's when the price went up.

I thought a 5th or a 6th for Foles would have been more appropriate but JAX could also have afforded to sit on making a trade until someone met their price.  Foles may turn out to be well worth it or he may become Mike Glennon v2.0 although that's probably unlikely.

I thought long ago that either Dalton or Foles would be the best guys to meet the criteria Pace and Nagy had established and they did approach Cincy first but it's obvious now that Teddy B was Pace's numero uno target all along and as usual he hid it well.

Dalton is in no hurry.  He knows he's gonna get paid and I believe he'd prefer to go where he can start and quite possibly negotiate an extension and NE has now become the top destination for any QB looking for work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, soulman said:

Dalton is in no hurry.  He knows he's gonna get paid and I believe he'd prefer to go where he can start and quite possibly negotiate an extension and NE has now become the top destination for any QB looking for work.

I think there’s a lot of overestimation here to what Dalton is going to get. He hasn’t been below average for 3 years now, and is coming off by far the worst season of his career. I can’t see a situation where he “gets paid.” 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, soulman said:

I forgot to deal with this part specifically in my earlier response so I will now because it segues perfectly with what I said about commenting about something without knowing the NFL rules.  But don't take this personally OK?

It would not have been tampering under FA rules.  Why?  Because Dalton is under contract for 2020 and would not become a FA unless Cincy released him which they had not done.  Instead Cincy was actively soliciting trade partners for Dalton and the Bears were one.  Whenever a team gives permission to a player to seek a trade or they themselves seek a trade no tampering can take place and that should be obvious.  So in all likelihood the media reports were quite correct.

Not that any of this matters because I have never heard ANYTHING about Nagy contacting the Bengals organization 2 weeks ago regarding Dalton. But.....

That's not true though. Dalton was still under contract before FA began and that is all that matters. 

https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2018 Policies/7-2018 Anti-Tampering Policy-Clean Version.pdf

NFL Players. No club, nor any person employed by or otherwise affiliated with a club, is permitted to tamper with a player who is under contract to or whose exclusive negotiating rights are held by another club.

Trade Discussions. Unless a new club has received written permission directly from a player’s employer club, entering into discussions with a player or his agent concerning the new club’s interest in acquiring the player via trade or otherwise would constitute a violation of the Anti-Tampering Policy. Under no circumstances should a new club rely upon any written or oral representation by a player or his agent that he has received permission to enter into discussions for a trade or negotiations for a contract. Nor should a new club rely upon a letter from the employer club to the agent or player granting such permission since employer clubs typically reserve the right to withdraw permission at any time, and may have already done so. Permission must be 4 NFL Anti-Tampering Policy (2018-2019) received by the new club directly from the employer club and should be in writing to protect the interests of both clubs.

 

Quote

Whenever a team gives permission to a player to seek a trade or they themselves seek a trade no tampering can take place and that should be obvious.  So in all likelihood the media reports were quite correct.

This is also not true. 

Assumption of Risk. To avoid potentially embarrassing situations and possible disciplinary actions, clubs are reminded that any contact by members of one organization with players of another organization could potentially interfere with an employer-employee relationship of the second club, even if the circumstances surrounding the contact may appear to be innocent. The Competition Committee has reviewed the Anti-Tampering Policy on numerous occasions and has always emphasized that great care and judgment must be exercised when any contact is made between the members of an organization and players from other teams, even in situations in which close personal relationships may exist. Although the Policy does not prohibit conversations or other forms of communication that are strictly social in nature, such communication can quickly and easily cross the line into prohibited topics of the type discussed in Section 3(b)(6) below. For this reason, clubs whose personnel engage in such social contact do so at their own risk and expose themselves and their clubs to discipline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The line played above their station in 2018. They regressed back to the mean in 2019. I am sure the coach was an issue. Switching Daniels and Whitehair was a mess.

But pre 2018 Massie and Leno were considered average. Massie has been wildly inconsistent. Then they both played really well in an offense that surprised some people.

But based on pre 2018 and post 2018, 2018 appears to have been a mirage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Kinda unfair when he just came back early from a major injury in week 1.  I don't think you can fairly use 2019 to evaluate Foles at all.

 

 

Part of me is wondering if this is why his deep ball looks so off, but his Jags tape is not inspiring. I may go and look back at some of his 2018 games with Philly (no, definitely not that one...) and see how different it is.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

I think there’s a lot of overestimation here to what Dalton is going to get. He hasn’t been below average for 3 years now, and is coming off by far the worst season of his career. I can’t see a situation where he “gets paid.” 

I'm sorry.  Not very clear there was I?

What I meant was that he's under contract now for 2020 and that deal will go with him unless Cincy releases him outright.

Just a guess but since he's only 32 and has a starters credentials if NE or someone else trades for him I would imagine they would want to negotiate an extension that would keep him around for 2-3 years.  If the Bears had traded for him that would have been my thinking as well and that may have been the hang up in why we didn't get deal done for him.  It's possible Dalton refused to negotiate an extension preferring instead to become a FA in 2021 and negotiate a new deal then hopefully as a starter.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a lot of people are underestimating how much the pats like Stidham.  Everything I’ve read suggests that they’re content with entering the year with him as QB1.  They may bring a veteran in like Dalton, but In no way is dalton (or  other vet) the day one starter.

I could see BB seeing QBs from other teams as “tainted” and doesn’t want to spend the time breaking bad habits and instilling “the patriot way” when he’s got a young QB who’s been with the team a year and worked with Brady.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...