drfrey13 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 I am open to a CB if we trade into the early 2nd round but not at 19. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said: Have you seen what similiar talent safeties get? There’s several that’s got 2.5M or less with incentives up to 4. Randall’s gonna end up waiting til TC and accept less if he Thinks hes gonna get even 5M. Have you seen? He's a top 5 FA safety 3 guy's below him got 3 year $18M deals, Vonn Bell, Eric Murray, Tre Boston. 32 year old Malcom Jenkins who is rated just above him which is questionable got $8M per. He will hold out unit after teams make cuts if he has to and get his market value. I'd rather give him the $6M than Apple. Edited April 3, 2020 by raidr4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 2 hours ago, roi34 said: He's not way better though. They grade out pretty similar. Grade out similarly on what? PFF? Worley is not very good on the outside, and at a very minimum, Apple is much better at pressing than Worley. There is a lot of things analytics cannot grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, raidr4life said: Have you seen? He's a top 5 FA safety 3 guy's below him got 3 year $18M deals, Vonn Bell, Eric Murray, Tre Boston. 32 year old Malcom Jenkins who is rated just above him which is questionable got $8M per. He will hold out unit after teams make cuts if he has to and get his market value. I'd rather give him the $6M than Apple. I remember I loved Vonn Bell coming out. Disappointing career. Although he’s definitely not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101Raider Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 Hope we go after Logan Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 6 hours ago, BayRaider said: Grade out similarly on what? PFF? Worley is not very good on the outside, and at a very minimum, Apple is much better at pressing than Worley. There is a lot of things analytics cannot grade. I live in NY, watched quite a bit of apple when he was here and in NO. You're overrated him a bit. He's young is his best asset for being better. Besides that, they have different strengths but apple and him are a wash. Worley prob comes on cheap too. Even if he's depth until younger drafted cb takes over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, roi34 said: I live in NY, watched quite a bit of apple when he was here and in NO. You're overrated him a bit. He's young is his best asset for being better. Besides that, they have different strengths but apple and him are a wash. Worley prob comes on cheap too. Even if he's depth until younger drafted cb takes over. Classic care of not not valuing the good Worley brings and only looking at the bad and over valuing Apple. Sure Apple is slightly better but they’re similar players. I don’t see one player vs the other winning us mutliple games. Furthermore, I’m sure they allow similar yards and catches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: Classic care of not not valuing the good Worley brings and only looking at the bad and over valuing Apple. Sure Apple is slightly better but they’re similar players. I don’t see one player vs the other winning us mutliple games. Furthermore, I’m sure they allow similar yards and catches. I get it, sometimes people want a change for sake of changing. If apple was so good he'd have a market. Instead he's a top 12 pick that got traded before his rookoe contact was up and then not resigned. Edited April 3, 2020 by roi34 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, roi34 said: I get it, sometimes people want a change for sake of changing. If apple was so good he'd have a market. I think apple’s issues have to due with the injury that ended his season in the 2nd to last game. It looked bad initially but the Saints said it was “only” and ankle injury. this is my theory: it was announced as a 1yr, 6.0m contract fully guaranteed. I think once his ankle was looked at there were still some issues and we tried to lessen the guarantees to being fully guaranteed at end of camp. He didn’t want to do that so we broke off the deal. We weren’t going to risk signing an injured potentially starting CB and the only money we make use to sign another DB (or two... Randall and a CB) but you’re right about sometimes people just want a change but it isn’t always better... even if it appears like it should be. Worley and Apple are both low end CB2. Not much functional difference. Edited April 3, 2020 by jimkelly02 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br10der Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 Anyone else feel that this is a blessing in disguise? Not an Eli Apple fan at all, and kinda cringed when I saw the signing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 9 minutes ago, Br10der said: Anyone else feel that this is a blessing in disguise? Not an Eli Apple fan at all, and kinda cringed when I saw the signing. Yeah, it really looks like it was a blessing in disguise. To me at least, it looks like we might have felt desperate for a starting CB and after losing out on several options picked a decent player, i actually think Apple is/can be a decent CB2 in the right scheme, we made the mistake of over paying him. That’s different that signing a bad or wrong player. With the time between the signing and the physical (several days) we came to the realization that it was too much and there are other viable options available including the draft and FA, or even a combination of both. When the physical showed potential issues we prolly argued over the guarantees in the 1yr, 6.0m deal as we wanted the option of releasing him during camp with no or little cap hit. In the end though I think we made the right move. I see WR1, CB2, SAM1, RB2 as NEEDS plus a WR3/4, backup DLmen, CB3/4 as roster spots that should be upgraded. Lastly, competition for LT2 with Parker would be a nice add. That’s 4 needs, 3 hopeful additions, and 1 position to possibly replace a backup at. With 7 picks in top rounds and 8.8M to spend in FA (rookies included in cap figures already) we should be able to fill all of those easily. Not to mention, I think (or hope) we can move down from #19 to get multiple picks. If anything I think we have a small surplus in assets to needs. I’d like us to sign a vet CB (T.Johnson, Worley, D.Kirkpatrick) which should cost under an absolute max of 4M to start early while the CB we likely draft in rounds 1-2 learns the ropes. I’d also like to resign Dion Jordan, as I like how he played last year, he can bring length to the DT position which is something it really lacks plus he’ll be cheap. If we just sign 2 players that leaves 7 (or more picks) for 5 needs/additions.... not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 3 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: Yeah, it really looks like it was a blessing in disguise. To me at least, it looks like we might have felt desperate for a starting CB and after losing out on several options picked a decent player, i actually think Apple is/can be a decent CB2 in the right scheme, we made the mistake of over paying him. That’s different that signing a bad or wrong player. With the time between the signing and the physical (several days) we came to the realization that it was too much and there are other viable options available including the draft and FA, or even a combination of both. When the physical showed potential issues we prolly argued over the guarantees in the 1yr, 6.0m deal as we wanted the option of releasing him during camp with no or little cap hit. In the end though I think we made the right move. I see WR1, CB2, SAM1, RB2 as NEEDS plus a WR3/4, backup DLmen, CB3/4 as roster spots that should be upgraded. Lastly, competition for LT2 with Parker would be a nice add. That’s 4 needs, 3 hopeful additions, and 1 position to possibly replace a backup at. With 7 picks in top rounds and 8.8M to spend in FA (rookies included in cap figures already) we should be able to fill all of those easily. Not to mention, I think (or hope) we can move down from #19 to get multiple picks. If anything I think we have a small surplus in assets to needs. I’d like us to sign a vet CB (T.Johnson, Worley, D.Kirkpatrick) which should cost under an absolute max of 4M to start early while the CB we likely draft in rounds 1-2 learns the ropes. I’d also like to resign Dion Jordan, as I like how he played last year, he can bring length to the DT position which is something it really lacks plus he’ll be cheap. If we just sign 2 players that leaves 7 (or more picks) for 5 needs/additions.... not bad. good thought out post, here is my take: Primary Needs- WR1 CB2 or CB1 to compliment Mullen RB2 Upgrades to Depth/Talent WR3/4 - need more talent SAM- don't value the position in the system, could find a thumper in LEE or Day 3. Another LB would be welcomed Could always add talent DL- DT for competition OL- like you said, Tackle to challenge Parker. I would sign a vet for cheap. Edge Rusher- could never have enough pass rushers S- could develop another player with the unit to provide depth/special teams *guard if we trade Gabe Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Humble_Beast said: good thought out post, here is my take: Primary Needs- WR1 CB2 or CB1 to compliment Mullen RB2 Upgrades to Depth/Talent WR3/4 - need more talent SAM- don't value the position in the system, could find a thumper in LEE or Day 3. Another LB would be welcomed Could always add talent DL- DT for competition OL- like you said, Tackle to challenge Parker. I would sign a vet for cheap. Edge Rusher- could never have enough pass rushers S- could develop another player with the unit to provide depth/special teams *guard if we trade Gabe Jackson Clarification: when I say CB2 I’m referring to a starting CB...Mullen, CB2, CB3, Lawson, Johnson, Nixon and so on. Same thing for WR: WR1, Williams, WR3, Renfrow, Agholor, Doss/Ateman ————————— We basically agree on everything. SAM isn’t a huge need, as you said, since its really a position that plays 40% the snaps. Plus, Lee starting wouldn’t be the end of the world. We’ve gone years with starters at MIKE and WILL who are inferior. we definitely need to add 2 WRs. Injuries happen, starting WRs don’t play 100% of the total snaps.... league wide is estimate it to be 65-85% game in and game out. Not to mention, we go 4 wide a decent amount. Having a 3rd starter (excluding Renfrow who is a slot only WR) allows us to switch up the players on a situational basis. Example, if we had a possession WR as WR3 he would get snaps in goal line or 3rd and 6 over a smaller, speedier WR. This allows us to run specific play packages. i actually cover all these needs in my mock draft I just finished,,,, but you know how that goes it’s never finished and your always making changes. Once you make it “perfect” you put it down and come back and question things. Edited April 14, 2020 by jimkelly02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, jimkelly02 said: Clarification: when I say CB2 I’m referring to a starting CB...Mullen, CB2, CB3, Lawson, Johnson, Nixon and so on. Same thing for WR: WR1, Williams, WR3, Renfrow, Agholor, Doss/Ateman ————————— We basically agree on everything. SAM isn’t a huge need, as you said, since its really a position that plays 40% the snaps. Plus, Lee starting wouldn’t be the end of the world. We’ve gone years with starters at MIKE and WILL who are inferior. we definitely need to add 2 WRs. Injuries happen, starting WRs don’t play 100% of the total snaps.... league wide is estimate it to be 65-85% game in and game out. Not to mention, we go 4 wide a decent amount. Having a 3rd starter (excluding Renfrow who is a slot only WR) allows us to switch up the players on a situational basis. Example, if we had a possession WR as WR3 he would get snaps in goal line or 3rd and 6 over a smaller, speedier WR. This allows us to run specific play packages. i actually cover all these needs in my mock draft I just finished,,,, but you know how that goes it’s never finished and your always making changes. Once you make it “perfect” you put it down and come back and question things. How would you like this? 19. Henry Ruggs III WR Alabama 28. Kristian Fulton CB LSU 39. Patrick Queen OLB LSU 42. Jaylon Johnson CB Utah 80. Kyle Dugger S Lenoir Rhyne 81. Brandon Aiyuk WR Arizona State 87. John Simpson G Clemson Could have taken Akers, Gay Jr, or Brooks over Simpson with the final pick also. Edited April 14, 2020 by drfrey13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted April 14, 2020 Share Posted April 14, 2020 53 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: How would you like this? 19. Henry Ruggs III WR Alabama 28. Kristian Fulton CB LSU 39. Patrick Queen OLB LSU 42. Jaylon Johnson CB Utah 80. Kyle Dugger S Lenoir Rhyne 81. Brandon Aiyuk WR Arizona State 87. John Simpson G Clemson Could have taken Akers, Gay Jr, or Brooks over Simpson with the final pick also. That’s definitely a great draft. It’s so good I don’t think it would happen in real life. I see queen, Johnson, Duggar, Aiyuk all going higher, some by a moderate margins. These simulators are fun but I think the data they enter into them is very “amateur”. It’s be cool to see some stat guy recalibrate them. For instance, players need a “floor” pick. Teams ignore need when a player has significantly dropped and take Bpa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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