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One thing that I saw out there was that COVID-19 might actually be partially responsible for some of the moves that we are seeing. Teams can't meet with players as easily and there's a chance that they will have significantly less time together in training camps to learn the schemes, so it does make some sense to bring in some guys that are familiar with Patricia. 

I am tired of him and Quinn and don't see this working out, but that could be part of it. 

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It's absolutely possible that Quinn and Patricia don't work out. That being said, I believe that we stand a much better chance of seeing success sooner by keeping Quinn and Patricia than we do rebuilding after the 2020 season.

It was just months ago that the majority of this fanbase was fully behind Patricia. One Stafford injury shifted that opinion completely.

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2 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

It's absolutely possible that Quinn and Patricia don't work out. That being said, I believe that we stand a much better chance of seeing success sooner by keeping Quinn and Patricia than we do rebuilding after the 2020 season.

It was just months ago that the majority of this fanbase was fully behind Patricia. One Stafford injury shifted that opinion completely.

One Stafford injury and a football season. 

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5 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

One Stafford injury and a football season. 

We also cannot forget the atrocious defense.. That had as much to do with it as the loss of Stafford, or a good deal of it anyway.

That said, and this is coming from an optimist, we still lead in most of our games and our team stuck behind our coach and fought.

There is a large amount of negativity surrounding Matty P right now.. But that has to count for something. 

Edited by BarryTheBest
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3 minutes ago, BarryTheBest said:

We also cannot forget the atrocious defense.. That had as much to do with it as the loss of Stafford, or a good deal of it anyway.

That said, and this is coming from an optimist, we still lead in most of our games and our team stuck behind our coach and fought.

There is a large amount of negativity surrounding Matty P right now.. But that has to count for something. 

It sure does.  12 losses...

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11 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

It's absolutely possible that Quinn and Patricia don't work out. That being said, I believe that we stand a much better chance of seeing success sooner by keeping Quinn and Patricia than we do rebuilding after the 2020 season.

It was just months ago that the majority of this fanbase was fully behind Patricia. One Stafford injury shifted that opinion completely.

You keep saying this, maybe more people fell off the bandwagon but the majority of the fan base has been extremely apathetic towards this regime 

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1 minute ago, BarryTheBest said:

We also cannot forget the atrocious defense.. That had as much to do with it as the loss of Stafford, or a good deal of it anyway.

That said, and this is coming from an optimist, we still lead in most of our games and our team stuck behind our coach and fought.

There is a large amount of negativity surrounding Matty P right now.. But that has to count for something. 

Absolutely agree with you here. 

There's a contingent of people that wanted Matt Patricia fired before he ever stepped foot in Detroit. Most of these people haven't shifted their opinions of him and the on-field (lack of) success has only supported their initial position. 

While I will come out pro-Patricia and appear to be drowning in kool-aid: a) I didn't buy into the 9-7 isn't good enough mantra. When they started talking about culture change, you knew it was much more than taking Caldwell's guys and getting to double digit wins; b) patient to see more of a track record before deciding fully on how I feel about things; c) I want to see the Lions be successful, regardless of who is at the helm and how they did it. I don't care. I just want to see them win. 

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I'm completely out on Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia. Their big downfall is that they spent enough time winning in New England that they both think they are much smarter than they actually are. They're trying to run this place like New England but they don't realize that it's a process, you can't do the NE thing when you haven't established a winning culture and the franchise has been one of the worst run teams in the NFL for decades now. You have to change the culture first, that takes a different approach when your building from the bottom. The NE thing works because they have a great foundation. We don't have Brady or Belichick, we don't develop players like the top team do. It's not going to work here.

This Darius Slay thing is just really souring. Slay has been a great player, good in the community, good in the locker room, never in trouble, a leader, a playmaker, a Top 5 CB for a couple healthy years and just a really good-solid player for a few years. A guy that wanted to be here most of the time he was here, which is rare because most guys can't wait to leave. To me it's just another sign that this franchise just doesn't get it. 

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11 hours ago, DOBSON10 said:

I'm completely out on Bob Quinn and Matt Patricia. Their big downfall is that they spent enough time winning in New England that they both think they are much smarter than they actually are. They're trying to run this place like New England but they don't realize that it's a process, you can't do the NE thing when you haven't established a winning culture and the franchise has been one of the worst run teams in the NFL for decades now. You have to change the culture first, that takes a different approach when your building from the bottom. The NE thing works because they have a great foundation. We don't have Brady or Belichick, we don't develop players like the top team do. It's not going to work here.

Exactly. It's a process. A "win now" mandate for the 3rd season is a great way to stop that process before they're able to establish the necessary environment.

Interestingly, I think it's clear that they're trying to change the culture. They've gotten rid of the players that complained about hard practices and brought in players that have been around success.

I'll also say this: if the Lions were taking former Browns, I'd be really skeptical. They aren't. They're taking talented players from a winning organization. Many of you criticize this organization for the constant losing - and rightfully so - then criticize a coach that has been around winning for bringing in players that have won.

Had Stafford not gotten hurt, and we won 8-9 games, some of you would (still) support Patricia. I'm glad that we didn't win games without him, as this pick has the chance to greatly enhance this franchise.

Edited by TL-TwoWinsAway
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I'm not sure the offensive line is currently better than last years. Hopefully some moves are made. It's the main reason why I think this team will fail next year. Outside of QB, offensive line(as a unit) is the second most important thing to me in football/on a football team.

Lots of philosophy's on how to build a team, and many work and none are perfect.

QB (Single most important position in sports, can literally change franchises seasons), Oline(protect qb/run ball/controll clock), Pass rush(DE's that can get pressure consistently and DT's that can apply pressure up the middle).

Everything else can be figured out with lesser resources. It's prolly why I hate this regime so bad. Spending a lot of resources on things like DB, LB, TE that I just fundamentally don't believe in doing. When they have gone into FA for Olinemen... Quinn so far has failed or picked up lateral moves... * Warford/Reiff for Lang/Wagner looks like a loss right now. He's drafted pretty good linemen though. Quinn might need to stick with this route. I mean I liked that they targeted Oline and spent money, just don't like the player they spent money on, I wanted a big name, more of a real sure thing with a proven track record or more established one. Everyone Quinn has signed to the Oline though has basically been a disappointment/bad. It's frustrating. My gut doesn't like it based on the player, and Quinn's history isn't proven so it's more of a prove it on the field and until then... MEH, signing. 

Lions could have a good line, we just let the wrong guys go and sign bad replacements...

 

Quote

Decker - Gandy - Ragnow - Warford - Reiff

could of been the Lions future oline if they just paid the right players. In all honestly though I don't hold the Reiff thing against him cause I thought Wagner was a better player too at the time. Would of paid Warford though. 

Edited by SimbaWho
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https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28928722/darius-slay-says-lost-all-respect-detroit-lions-coach-matt-patricia-2018

2018

- Patricia gets hired

- Makes off colour joke about Slay not being in the same category as Richard Sherman and/or Aqib Talib > Slay assumes that Patricia doesn't like him as a player

- Training camp > Player makes couple catches on him in practice. Slay posts a picture of him and said player on social media praising said player (after being beat a bunch of times). Next day, Patricia calls him out for said social media post. Makes off colour comment. Probably something along the lines of "get off his ****". > Slay allegedly loses respect for him as a person from this

"Darius, to his credit, zero reaction, zero response," a player in the room told ESPN. "He handled that s--- like a G. Because that was wild. If it was me and I was getting paid millions like he gets paid, I don't know if my ego would have allowed that.Grown men to grown men, you just don't talk to someone that way."

[Slay] said he still respected Patricia as a coach and that he can coach how he wants, but the personal relationship was "down the drain."

2019

- After the 2018 season, Patricia said publicly about his first season that he aimed to look at what he needed to do to "be a better head coach, better leader of this team, better ways to improve myself so that we can all push forward and give ourselves a better chance to win."

- Slay sits out parts of training camp, wanting a new contract (has not requested to be traded for non-monetary reasons)

- Slay said when they finally addressed the incident over a year later, Patricia told him he didn't remember saying that, but Slay did say Patricia apologized.

- Slay said the relationship with Patricia in 2019 "was a way better year than last year." He called the 2019 season "good, we had no problems," and said both player and coach understood it was all business -- that all Patricia needed to do was coach him on how to be a better player and what he needed to do to help Detroit win.

- The one hiccup came when the Lions traded one of Slay's close friends, safety Quandre Diggs, at midseason. Slay expressed his displeasure publicly and was bothered that no one gave him a heads-up beforehand about the trade of a team captain and one of his fellow secondary members

- Slay said the relationship could potentially have been mended "in years to come," but at the time, it wasn't close. And by the end, they had at least been cordial.

This sounds a lot like a new HC coming in with piss and vinegar, trying to push his best player (and probably did the same with other players) in an attempt to move the team from ok to great. This is a team with a long history of losing, coming from a team where making the playoffs is a given. You don't make that kind of change on a gentle, slow incline. A player with a bit of an ego gets upset and then doesn't say anything to said coach but lets it fester for over a year. HC realizes he needs to change his methods and does that for the following year. Player is still holding said grudge despite seeing the shift and growth as a HC. Then gets his nose out of joint when the team decides to make moves without discussing with him. Would all of this still be an issue if Slay got paid the Eagles-esque contract in Detroit? 

Patricia made some mistakes and has clearly learned from them. To hold him 100% accountable for this is not right or fair. 

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I'm getting the impression that the Lions may be done with their significant free agent signings. If so, I'm pretty underwhelmed.

It's safe to say that they view Collins as an upgrade over Kennard, so I'll chalk it up to that. Even with better usage with Davis, this unit isn't a strength: Tavai appears to be solid, but forming a quartet with Collins, Davis and Jones isn't a great group by any means.

The downgrade from Slay to Trufant exists, and, aside from that, the secondary remains similar to last year's unit. I can see Harmon - a former 3rd round pick with a nose for the ball - playing a full-time FS role for this defense, with Walker starting at SS and Harris rotating in. Still, a pretty sizable downgrade here.

We went into free agency losing our significant DTs, and left free agency essentially replacing them with equal or lesser players. Shelton should be solid in the middle, and Williams is a sub-package piece, but what else is here to speak of? If we could point to elite players at DE or OLB, I'd believe that we could get away with some relatively unknown big-bodies in the middle. Outside of Flowers, we're thin here too. It's hard to believe that we could downgrade along the DLine from last year, but it's even harder to call this an improvement.

On the offensive line, Vaitai is an upgrade over Wagner, but the loss of Glasgow - without a body to seemingly replace him - is extremely concerning. They might either feel that a body on the roster, out of Dahl, Benzschawel, Garnett or even Crosby, can take one guard spot, or that starting two rookies is the answer. Neither option inspires confidence. I don't see a scenario where we leave rounds 1-4 without drafting a guard.

We still have plenty of cap space and tons of delicious draft capital, so the sky isn't falling. Coming away with Young at #3, or Okudah at #5 or #6, would be a significant improvement to this roster, and could help mask some of these glaring weaknesses. Even then, and even with a healthy Stafford, is this a 10 win team? It's hard to see that right now.

Edited by TL-TwoWinsAway
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20 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Exactly. It's a process. A "win now" mandate for the 3rd season is a great way to stop that process before they're able to establish the necessary environment.

Interestingly, I think it's clear that they're trying to change the culture. They've gotten rid of the players that complained about hard practices and brought in players that have been around success.

I'll also say this: if the Lions were taking former Browns, I'd be really skeptical. They aren't. They're taking talented players from a winning organization. Many of you criticize this organization for the constant losing - and rightfully so - then criticize a coach that has been around winning for bringing in players that have won.

Had Stafford not gotten hurt, and we won 8-9 games, some of you would (still) support Patricia. I'm glad that we didn't win games without him, as this pick has the chance to greatly enhance this franchise.

I don't have a win now mandate on them, all though Quinn is getting near being here long enough that there isn't much excuses left on why this team isn't getting better. The mandate I have, is for this team to start adding some real playmakers. The problem I have with Quinn, is I think he's good a building a supporting cast... but a great supporting cast means nothing without stars to lead the team. And he's just not getting it done. With Free Agency, he just keeps signing these middle of the pack role players, you don't really ever see the Lions name come up in trade talks when moves like Khalil Mack, Jalen Ramsey and DeAndre Hopkins come up and the only player he's Drafted that's even close to a star is Kenny Galloday. We had 3 true playmakers on the team last year, Stafford, Slay and Galloday. We just lost one of them, our best signing is another Patriots player that didn't play that well outside of New England. And we cut our third best defensive player to make room for him (Kennard). There's no upgrade there and seemingly no real plan in place outside of getting players that fit our scheme (AKA... New England role player types).

I just feel like this team has never been aggressive enough in the Front Office to really turn this around. For a team that's been as bas as long as this teams been bad, there seems to be no urgency, no aggression to really make a move into contendership. Make a move to land a player that takes you to a new level, even it's just taking you from 3-13 to 6-10, make something happen. Draft, Trades, FA, it's all been play it safe mode with Quinn, pass on the elite talent and go for diamonds in the rough. Every good team needs the smart role players, and quality depth but you aren't going anywhere with 2-3 playmakers on a 53 man roster. It's time for them to take a step forward, or we'll be looking at another Management team in 2021 or 2022.

 

Edited by DOBSON10
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On 2020-03-20 at 4:07 AM, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Exactly. It's a process. A "win now" mandate for the 3rd season is a great way to stop that process before they're able to establish the necessary environment.

Interestingly, I think it's clear that they're trying to change the culture. They've gotten rid of the players that complained about hard practices and brought in players that have been around success.

I'll also say this: if the Lions were taking former Browns, I'd be really skeptical. They aren't. They're taking talented players from a winning organization. Many of you criticize this organization for the constant losing - and rightfully so - then criticize a coach that has been around winning for bringing in players that have won.

Had Stafford not gotten hurt, and we won 8-9 games, some of you would (still) support Patricia. I'm glad that we didn't win games without him, as this pick has the chance to greatly enhance this franchise.

Patricia has been around a winning team but as an assistant, not the guy in charge.We have seen a great many coaches from the Patriots that cant duplicate BB’s success. We have never seen a coach from the Patriots that duplicated or even came remotely close to his success.

Players from a winning team that are let go. They don’t fit the Patriots plans. BB proving he’s still the smartest guy in the room.

 

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