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10 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

What I expect and what I'm hopeful for are two different things.

I'd love for my expectations to be proven wrong and to see this team become a winner with Patricia and Quinn in 2020 and beyond. I wanted Quinn to succeed when he was hired, and Patricia when he was hired. I've had four years of watching Quinn and two years of watching Patricia. Based on the product they've managed to put on the field, I don't see how they're going to be here in a year after the Fords said what they said.

There is no over/under on wins that'll make me think this regime will turn the Lions into winners. Saying just a number would ignore a heck of a lot of context, and I know how important that is to you. Winning a playoff game would certainly have me rethinking my expectations.

You want them out, I get it and don't blame you.  I never wanted them to set foot here, but yet here they are.  So, if they are fired after the 2020 season, no matter who comes in, do you want a complete rebuild and will you allow them the time to do so (as a fan)?  What's that look like to you?

Edited by LionArkie
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1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Interesting.

If Stafford got hurt in pre-season and this team went 7-9 with Daniels under center, would you think that Patricia should keep his job?

It depends on many other factors, the most significant probably being is the defense fixed or not. 

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1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Interesting.

If Stafford got hurt in pre-season and this team went 7-9 with Daniels under center, would you think that Patricia should keep his job?

If that is the proper scenario, then I would expect for Quinn to be fired if he didn't bring in a QB that is more capable than Daniel's for the season. If Dalton is still on the Bengals in this scenario, I would not be happy if Quinn didn't make a trade for him after the Bengals do draft Burrow as his replacement. 

If we're talking about an injury part of the way through the season like last year and there isn't really anyone available, then I can understand having to ride behind Daniel's. If we have 16 games to go, then they should be finding an alternative option quickly. 

My expectation is that guys like Cam and Jameis will be on teams and not available at a lower cost. 

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3 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

You want them out, I get it and don't blame you.  I never wanted them to set foot here, but yet here they are.  So, if they are fired after the 2020 season, no matter who comes in, do you want a complete rebuild and will you allow them the time to do so (as a fan)?  What's that look like to you?

I'm not exactly certain what you're asking but I'll do my best to answer.

I want this team to stop being a laughing stock, and be legitimate contenders every season.

If the next regime comes in and says we need a rebuild that'll take three years, be patient. I'll be patient as long as their plan makes sense and looks like it is working. If they make boneheaded move after boneheaded move, I'll lose my patience.

If the next regime comes in and says we're built to win now, and gets worse and worse while making boneheaded moves, my patience will quickly run out, as we've seen. 

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3 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

I'm not exactly certain what you're asking but I'll do my best to answer.

I want this team to stop being a laughing stock, and be legitimate contenders every season.

If the next regime comes in and says we need a rebuild that'll take three years, be patient. I'll be patient as long as their plan makes sense and looks like it is working. If they make boneheaded move after boneheaded move, I'll lose my patience.

If the next regime comes in and says we're built to win now, and gets worse and worse while making boneheaded moves, my patience will quickly run out, as we've seen. 

That's all I was wondering. Basically if you would be willing to go through a rebuild -again - and you be willing to give them a few years to do so.  Personally, I don't think any regime can come in and completely overhaul a roster and culture in 3 years, but everyone has their own expectations.  The Lions have been, and still are "the can't get rights".  I'm waiting for Quinn and Patricia to show me otherwise, but at most its just flashes and nothing consistent.

Edited by LionArkie
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6 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

That's all I was wondering. Basically if you would be willing to go through a rebuild -again - and you be willing to give them a few years to do so.  Personally, I don't think any regime can come in and completely overhaul a roster and culture in 3 years, but everyone has their own expectations.  The Lions have been, and still are the can't get rights.  I'm waiting for Quinn and Patricia to show me otherwise, but at most its just flashes and nothing consistent.

Part of my problem with BQ and Patricia by extension is BQ has repeatedly come out and said one thing, and a short time later completely reversed direction or been proven wrong. He once said keeping Caldwell was the best decision he could have made, and granted him an extension on his contract. To me the contract extension proves BQ actually believed what he said and wasn't just saying the right things to the media. However, less than a year later, and before Caldwell had coached a game under that extension, BQ fired him because they were built to win now and he needed Patricia to win now. Two years later we've regressed each year with BQ's hand picked coach to win now, Patricia.

It just continues to look like they have no idea what they're doing.

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3 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

Part of my problem with BQ and Patricia by extension is BQ has repeatedly come out and said one thing, and a short time later completely reversed direction or been proven wrong. He once said keeping Caldwell was the best decision he could have made, and granted him an extension on his contract. To me the contract extension proves BQ actually believed what he said and wasn't just saying the right things to the media. However, less than a year later, and before Caldwell had coached a game under that extension, BQ fired him because they were built to win now and he needed Patricia to win now. Two years later we've regressed each year with BQ's hand picked coach to win now, Patricia.

It just continues to look like they have no idea what they're doing.

This is where I differ.  I think they try to pacify the fans and market to them that it is not as bad as it looks.  I think they take us for dopes.  They say one thing and mean another, constantly and I think the current letter from Martha to the fans is the same BS. I believe, Quinn always had a plan to bring in one of the NE assistants, but didn't know what Belichick was doing in terms of retirement and due to tampering rules (I think tampering applies for coaches here).  I think he was going to ride out Caldwell as long as he could, knowing Caldwell was a 9-7 type coach until one of NE assistant's was available.  Aftre all, I think we all would agree Caldwell is a good person. And I think Quinn used that as he knew Caldwell wouldn't create problems.  What I think caught these guys by surprise, is the revolt against MP upon his hire.  That severely limited them in the first year of MP's tenure.  Then Quinn had to strip the whole thing down and Slay was the last piece.  So, I think these two aren't good people, or maybe a better way to put it is very cut throat and used Caldwell.  It's a very NE thing to do.

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2 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

This is where I differ.  I think they try to pacify the fans and market to them that it is not as bad as it looks.  I think they take us for dopes.  They say one thing and mean another, constantly and I think the current letter from Martha to the fans is the same BS. I believe, Quinn always had a plan to bring in one of the NE assistants, but didn't know what Belichick was doing in terms of retirement and due to tampering rules (I think tampering applies for coaches here).  I think he was going to ride out Caldwell as long as he could, knowing Caldwell was a 9-7 type coach until one of NE assistant's was available.  Aftre all, I think we all would agree Caldwell is a good person. And I think Quinn used that as he knew Caldwell wouldn't create problems.  What I think caught these guys by surprise, is the revolt against MP upon his hire.  That severely limited them in the first year of MP's tenure.  Then Quinn had to strip the whole thing down and Slay was the last piece.  So, I think these two aren't good people, or maybe a better way to put it is very cut throat and used Caldwell.  It's a very NE thing to do.

If that was BQ's intention, I don't see why Caldwell was extended. NFL head coaching contracts are guaranteed IIRC. That's just the BQ throwing the Ford's money at Caldwell if his intent was to fire him before coaching a game under that extension. 

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7 minutes ago, Nnivolcm said:

If that was BQ's intention, I don't see why Caldwell was extended. NFL head coaching contracts are guaranteed IIRC. That's just the BQ throwing the Ford's money at Caldwell if his intent was to fire him before coaching a game under that extension. 

Fair point, but I think it comes back to him not knowing what Patricia or McDaniels was doing.  At the time, if I remember right, there were rumors of BB retiring.  I believe he sold Martha that eventually we will have to move on from Caldwell, and he would get her a NE dynasty here.  JC's contract would have been peanuts for the type of return they could get if they made it work.  I don't know what JC's contract was, but lets say 5 million.  That's like me or you pulling out five bucks from our pocket for the fords.  I think Quinn was fine with working with Caldwell until he could get his guy and Martha was fine with 9-7, since Lions fans have accepted and have seen it as good forever.

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2 minutes ago, LionArkie said:

Fair point, but I think it comes back to him not knowing what Patricia or McDaniels was doing.  At the time, if I remember right, there were rumors of BB retiring.  I believe he sold Martha that eventually we will have to move on from Caldwell, and we will get her a NE dynasty here.  JC's contract would have been peanuts for the type of return they could get if they made it work.  I don't know what JC's contract was, but lets say 5 million.  That's like me or you pulling out five bucks from our pocket for the fords.  I think Quinn was fine with working with Caldwell until he could get his guy and Martha was fine with 9-7 since Lions fans have accepted and see it as good forever.

If his pitch to get hired was "a few years from now, we can start to build" he should have never been hired lol.

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