2020 NFL Draft: Discussion, Reports, Rumors, and Studies

[Rockice_8]

9 minutes ago, dcat said:

nope.  But I firmly believe that both the OT position and the WR position are miles above in importance than the safety position.  Particularly one whose set of strengths does not include coverage.  Jamal brings other skills to the table, but coverage is not one of them.  People act like he is a model of perfection out there and he is anything but that.  We could run many reels of film showing him running the wrong angles and whiffing.  He's a top safety, yes.  But give me a top OT or a top WR or both over that position 24/7.

In a nutshell yes you prioritize an OT and WR over a S but that's not what the question is.

If you don't think Jamal can cover we can stop this discussion.  Jamal does everything well including coverage.

You are greatly underestimating the impact Jamal has on the field and there in lies the biggest flaw in your argument.

You basically want to trade him for Lamb and right now Adams >>>>> Lamb.  Lamb would need to become Julio for this to make any sense and that is a huge risk.

[Bobby816]

43 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

No the idea is to keep special players and not trade them away for less than their worth.  It won't be happening because JD would laugh whoever called off the phone.  If you want to trade a special player so we can get a slightly better WR in round 1 then round 2 so be it.  

I guess you would be ok trading Aaron Donald too.  I mean he's just an interior lineman.  Those guys are easy to replace.

Exactly. And I want a WR and OT bad. But it doesn’t make sense. I mean would it have been smart for Pitt to trade Polamalu a few years later for let’s say Levi Brown In the draft? Heck no.

[NJC33]

21 minutes ago, dcat said:

nope.  But I firmly believe that both the OT position and the WR position are miles above in importance than the safety position.  Particularly one whose set of strengths does not include coverage.  Jamal brings other skills to the table, but coverage is not one of them.  People act like he is a model of perfection out there and he is anything but that.  We could run many reels of film showing him running the wrong angles and whiffing.  He's a top safety, yes.  But give me a top OT or a top WR or both over that position 24/7.

I mean, this just isn't exactly true..

Over the past two seasons, Adams has graded out among the top rated coverage safety's using virtually any metric or evaluation platform. There's a rare few capable of transcending the game in such a way that makes positional value irrelevant - Think Aaron Donald, Bobby Wagner or more appropriately Troy Polamalu. I'm not saying Jamal is Aaron Donald but to discredit his impact because he's just a "Top safety" is misinformed. We're talking about a guy who over the past two seasons has arguably been our most consistent safety/linebacker/Edge/Corner. 

Furthermore.. In this hypothetical scenario we'd be trading Jamal for the rights to draft a top WR, so the premium position argument is trivial at best.

 

[dcat]

15 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

I mean, this just isn't exactly true..

Over the past two seasons, Adams has graded out among the top rated coverage safety's using virtually any metric or evaluation platform. There's a rare few capable of transcending the game in such a way that makes positional value irrelevant - Think Aaron Donald, Bobby Wagner or more appropriately Troy Polamalu. I'm not saying Jamal is Aaron Donald but to discredit his impact because he's just a "Top safety" is misinformed. We're talking about a guy who over the past two seasons has arguably been our most consistent safety/linebacker/Edge/Corner. 

Furthermore.. In this hypothetical scenario we'd be trading Jamal for the rights to draft a top WR, so the premium position argument is trivial at best.

 

My opinion, FWIW:  OT is premium.  WR is premium.  S is not.  Far from trivial.  If you think Jamal is special in coverage, then who am I to burst your bubble? I credit Adams with all he does, but this business of making him an icon at this point is overboard.  I see him take wrong angles way too often and I see him away from the play by his own doing more than I like.    People see what they want to see. I would love to agree with you guys on this.  But I don't.  Leave it at that.  It's mostly based on positional value to me and that I don't see Jamal as elite (and please don't interpret that to mean I think he is not good.  that's not what I am saying). 

[NYJets4716]

There is no reason to trade Adams. Trading away young elite talent is why the Jets are garbage. Adams deserves to get a large contract extension, when hes on the field he simply makes our defense better. We overachieved on defense largely because Adams was making impact plays constantly. 

I would love to see a contract extension to Marcus Maye as well who is very solid at FS. 

If we had an actual edge rush, our defense could be elite. Though our Cbs are still weak, but our front 7 is dynamic. A healthy CJ Mosley in the middle is gonna be a huge impact. 

If Adams came out and said "I want to be traded" then I'd trade him, but he hasn't so people need to calm down just because he has a voice. 

Watching more Jeudy, he is so graceful on the football field. Man I'd love for him to be a Jet, instant #1 WR and turns our WR room into a legit unit. 

 

Watching Tua, he is so overrated. People act like hes one of the best college QB prospects in the last decade when the guy constantly has a clean pocket due to great talent on the OL and Jedrick Wills being a wall. And then he also has studs at WR. Jerry Jeudy was just better than everyone he faced and Henry Ruggs was faster than anyone he faced.  And often Tua would underthrow Ruggs preventing him from really roasting DBs in college. 

[Bobby816]

4 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said:

There is no reason to trade Adams. Trading away young elite talent is why the Jets are garbage. Adams deserves to get a large contract extension, when hes on the field he simply makes our defense better. We overachieved on defense largely because Adams was making impact plays constantly. 

I would love to see a contract extension to Marcus Maye as well who is very solid at FS. 

If we had an actual edge rush, our defense could be elite. Though our Cbs are still weak, but our front 7 is dynamic. A healthy CJ Mosley in the middle is gonna be a huge impact. 

If Adams came out and said "I want to be traded" then I'd trade him, but he hasn't so people need to calm down just because he has a voice. 

Watching more Jeudy, he is so graceful on the football field. Man I'd love for him to be a Jet, instant #1 WR and turns our WR room into a legit unit. 

 

Watching Tua, he is so overrated. People act like hes one of the best college QB prospects in the last decade when the guy constantly has a clean pocket due to great talent on the OL and Jedrick Wills being a wall. And then he also has studs at WR. Jerry Jeudy was just better than everyone he faced and Henry Ruggs was faster than anyone he faced.  And often Tua would underthrow Ruggs preventing him from really roasting DBs in college. 

Very true about his WRs. He has 1st round NFL talent all around him. Pretty much no matter where he ends up he is significant downgrading at WR. Jeudy, Ruggs, Smith, Waddle is better than every WR group in the NFL from 1-4 IMO.

[NJC33]

1 hour ago, dcat said:

My opinion, FWIW:  OT is premium.  WR is premium.  S is not.  Far from trivial.  If you think Jamal is special in coverage, then who am I to burst your bubble? I credit Adams with all he does, but this business of making him an icon at this point is overboard.  I see him take wrong angles way too often and I see him away from the play by his own doing more than I like.    People see what they want to see. I would love to agree with you guys on this.  But I don't.  Leave it at that.  It's mostly based on positional value to me and that I don't see Jamal as elite (and please don't interpret that to mean I think he is not good.  that's not what I am saying). 

If that's your opinion, fair. 

My point being, Adams is so much more than a safety so to characterize him as such for the purpose of comparing positional importance doesn't hold much ground. Is he perfect? Of course not. He's a 2x All Pro entering his fourth season - A transcendent player with reasonable HOF level aspirations. You're claiming to credit him for everything he does while also directing criticism towards his coverage ability when in actuality he's one of the elite coverage safety's in the league... There are plenty of metrics to support this.

From PFF (2018):

(2019):

Not bad for a safety not known for his coverage. This isn't an instance of "homerism" or people seeing what they want - The dude is a generational talent IMO.  

[Rockice_8]

He called Jamal not elite.  I think we can stop the debate there.

[Bobby816]

5 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

He called Jamal not elite.  I think we can stop the debate there.

Ya there’s no questioning his talent. It’s antics off the field rubbing some of us wrong. And that’s not enough for me to want to trade him.

[rickyt31]

I think Van jefferson is my "Must Get" guy now. 

[rampantjet]

5 minutes ago, rickyt31 said:

I think Van jefferson is my "Must Get" guy now. 

Like him a lot.   Bummer that he is an older prospect but that's not a deal breaker

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, rampantjet said:

Like him a lot.   Bummer that he is an older prospect but that's not a deal breaker

It’s funny to me that he’s a year older than Darnold and hasn’t taken an NFL snap yet. My issue with him all along is that his game is nearly maxed out already due to his physical traits. So what you see is what you’re getting. With COVID he might go higher than we thought being he’s a “safe” pick. Wouldn’t surprise me at all for teams to really target who they spent time with at the senior bowl and combine. With not as many pro days and no meetings that’s all these teams know about guys.

[KingOfNewYork]

Jefferson can be our new Cotchery. Nothing wrong with that IMO. 

[dcat]

16 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Jefferson can be our new Cotchery. Nothing wrong with that IMO. 

I think Jefferson will go well before 48.  So either a trade down or a trade up from 48?  I'd rather add picks than reduce,  so I'm game for a trade down from 11 to get Jefferson, Higgins or Mims, get a OT at either 48 or whatever other 2nd round pick we can get for the trade down.  

[dcat]

5 hours ago, NJC33 said:

If that's your opinion, fair. 

My point being, Adams is so much more than a safety so to characterize him as such for the purpose of comparing positional importance doesn't hold much ground. Is he perfect? Of course not. He's a 2x All Pro entering his fourth season - A transcendent player with reasonable HOF level aspirations. You're claiming to credit him for everything he does while also directing criticism towards his coverage ability when in actuality he's one of the elite coverage safety's in the league... There are plenty of metrics to support this.

From PFF (2018):

(2019):

Not bad for a safety not known for his coverage. This isn't an instance of "homerism" or people seeing what they want - The dude is a generational talent IMO.  

As I said.  Jamal is an outstanding safety.  My definition of elite requires greater consistency on the field than he has shown. The good thing is he improved tremendously from 2018 to 2019.  I hope we keep him and don't trade him.  If you guys are under the impression I want to dump him, well that's not the case.  All I was saying is that there are logical and legitimate arguments for trading him and I guarantee you it has been discussed at Florham Park more than once for the reasons I cited.  My hope is he stays a Jet, becomes more consistent and matures a bit (regarding off-field dumbness) and that JD is good enough to maneuver through the draft and free agency to build a long-term contender.  

If we can move on past "trading Jamal" talk... that would be great.  I don't believe it could happen.  Why would a team give the kind of draft capital for a safety that it would require to pry him away... except maybe Jerry Jones who works with his heart more than his head.