Mike Maccagnan Thread

[rdelaney89]

6 hours ago, barnaby8787 said:

Ted Thompson spent draft picks on guys that would backup Favre for years if hopes that they could eventually develop into competent backups or a potential starter.  Mac didn't take that approach.  Mac took two guys hoping they'd work their way into starters.  Petty has been horrific.  We'll see how Hack does if he makes it to the field.  Although I agree, all will be forgotten if he finds our franchise QB.

Well yea that's what a team taking a developmental QB is hoping for. I don't believe he thought he was selecting his franchise QB though.

[Bobby816]

We haven’t drafted a skill position good player since 2001 (Santana Moss). This needs to change.

[Dr.O]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

We haven’t drafted a skill position good player since 2001 (Santana Moss). This needs to change.

Think we snag our RB this year, think Love, Jones, Wadley, and Walton will all be on our radar.

[rdelaney89]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

We haven’t drafted a skill position good player since 2001 (Santana Moss). This needs to change.

Yea under this regime we've opted with later round picks and cheap FAs. I don't think we've gotten bad production from that position though. I expect us to take a RB in round 2 or 3 this year after knowing we wanted Kamara last year.

[jetskid007]

19 hours ago, rdelaney89 said:

Well yea that's what a team taking a developmental QB is hoping for. I don't believe he thought he was selecting his franchise QB though.

He admitted such back when he drafted Hackenberg as well. Was very clear that Hack was a developmental prospect. In hindsight it’s fair to criticize how high he selected him, but Hack was not making it to the 3rd round (WAS and NE were on him) and Macc really wanted him. Can’t blame the guy for going with his gut. Hopefully he’s learned from it and has a clear idea of what to look for in a franchise guy. 

[jetskid007]

I wanted to make a comment on Mike Maccagnan given how many fans seem to want him fired. 

Tom Telesco. Howie Roseman. Ryan Pace. Rick Spielman. Les Snead. Jon Robinson.

These are just some guys who had "rough starts" as GMs, some going through multiple head coaches, and ultimately finding success a few years into the gig. These are just recent examples, as nearly every GM (look at Ozzie Newsome) has gone through this phase. 

Unlike a coach — who is evaluated in a short-term lens based on a wins and losses — GMs are evaluated based on their long-term vision. While I do think Todd has worked well with Maccagnan and helped lay the foundation for where this organization needs to go, it was an arranged marriage. Maccagnan deserves his opportunity to pick (or at least have a say) who will be the next head coach of the New York Jets. 

Why? Because he has the right vision for the team. 

Yes, Maccagnan has made mistakes-just like every GM has. But ever since he got here his mission was to find the Jets a QB. He has. Most GMs can’t say that. His draft record hasn’t been spectacular, but he’s added enough young pieces to be warranted a pass. He’s cleaned up our financial structure, which will give the Jets tremendous flexibility over the next 4 seasons. Now, it should be on him to (1) find a coach that can properly develop the players; and/or (2) make changes to his scouting department to ensure the "hit" rate improves. 

 

Follow the blueprint the Chargers used:

Telesco and Mike McCoy were both hired in 2013. Initial season they went 9-7 and made the playoffs. Their success sputtered, yet Telesco was given a 3-year extension that ran through 2019 (Jets gave both Macc and Todd extensions at the end of last year). No FA remains from his first year, with Keenan Allen the only draft pick still on the roster. His second draft class landed him Jason Verrett, but otherwise the remaining 5 players are on different teams (Attaochu)/out of the league. Things started to turn around in his 3rd year,  landing Melvin Gordon and Denzel Perryman in the draft, but still make mistakes in free agency (Orlando Franklin). He started to take off in his 4th year, when he drafted Bosa, Henry, Brown, and Watt and signed Casey Heyward. Up until this point, you can make the argument that he and Maccagnan shared similar draft success with his 4th class (Darnold, Shepherd, Herndon, Nickerson, Fatukasi, Cannon) the best to date.

Telesco and the Chargers really started to take off in his 5th year. McCoy was fired, Telesco remained, and he found a gem in Anthony Lynn. After a string of good draft classes and great coaching by Lynn, Telesco is now considered one of the top executives in the game. In 2017 he signed Russell Okung, drafted Mike Williams, Lamp, Feeney, King, and signed Ekeler as an UDFA. 2018 he nabbed James - favorite to be DROY, and promising players in Nwosu and Justin Jones. 

The point I'm making: you can't judge a general manager solely on a few hiccups. He hasn't done anything to the level that Idzik did, which were complete whiffs and attempts to sabotage the coach. He's not incompetent on the scouting front nor has he mortgaged the future the way Tannenbaum did. He hasn't drafted a kicker in the 2nd or traded a 1st round pick for Doug Jolley. He's has done what Jets fans have asked for since I can remember: started and official rebuild and landed a franchise QB. 

Maccagnan deserves to be back. 

[barnaby8787]

4 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

I wanted to make a comment on Mike Maccagnan given how many fans seem to want him fired. 

Tom Telesco. Howie Roseman. Ryan Pace. Rick Spielman. Les Snead. Jon Robinson.

These are just some guys who had "rough starts" as GMs, some going through multiple head coaches, and ultimately finding success a few years into the gig. These are just recent examples, as nearly every GM (look at Ozzie Newsome) has gone through this phase. 

Unlike a coach — who is evaluated in a short-term lens based on a wins and losses — GMs are evaluated based on their long-term vision. While I do think Todd has worked well with Maccagnan and helped lay the foundation for where this organization needs to go, it was an arranged marriage. Maccagnan deserves his opportunity to pick (or at least have a say) who will be the next head coach of the New York Jets. 

Why? Because he has the right vision for the team. 

Yes, Maccagnan has made mistakes-just like every GM has. But ever since he got here his mission was to find the Jets a QB. He has. Most GMs can’t say that. His draft record hasn’t been spectacular, but he’s added enough young pieces to be warranted a pass. He’s cleaned up our financial structure, which will give the Jets tremendous flexibility over the next 4 seasons. Now, it should be on him to (1) find a coach that can properly develop the players; and/or (2) make changes to his scouting department to ensure the "hit" rate improves. 

 

Follow the blueprint the Chargers used:

Telesco and Mike McCoy were both hired in 2013. Initial season they went 9-7 and made the playoffs. Their success sputtered, yet Telesco was given a 3-year extension that ran through 2019 (Jets gave both Macc and Todd extensions at the end of last year). No FA remains from his first year, with Keenan Allen the only draft pick still on the roster. His second draft class landed him Jason Verrett, but otherwise the remaining 5 players are on different teams (Attaochu)/out of the league. Things started to turn around in his 3rd year,  landing Melvin Gordon and Denzel Perryman in the draft, but still make mistakes in free agency (Orlando Franklin). He started to take off in his 4th year, when he drafted Bosa, Henry, Brown, and Watt and signed Casey Heyward. Up until this point, you can make the argument that he and Maccagnan shared similar draft success with his 4th class (Darnold, Shepherd, Herndon, Nickerson, Fatukasi, Cannon) the best to date.

Telesco and the Chargers really started to take off in his 5th year. McCoy was fired, Telesco remained, and he found a gem in Anthony Lynn. After a string of good draft classes and great coaching by Lynn, Telesco is now considered one of the top executives in the game. In 2017 he signed Russell Okung, drafted Mike Williams, Lamp, Feeney, King, and signed Ekeler as an UDFA. 2018 he nabbed James - favorite to be DROY, and promising players in Nwosu and Justin Jones. 

The point I'm making: you can't judge a general manager solely on a few hiccups. He hasn't done anything to the level that Idzik did, which were complete whiffs and attempts to sabotage the coach. He's not incompetent on the scouting front nor has he mortgaged the future the way Tannenbaum did. He hasn't drafted a kicker in the 2nd or traded a 1st round pick for Doug Jolley. He's has done what Jets fans have asked for since I can remember: started and official rebuild and landed a franchise QB. 

Maccagnan deserves to be back. 

If you look at Idzik's first two draft class vs. Mac's first two draft classes, Mac's drafts were barely better.  Granted, Idzik had more picks.  With that said, Mac's draft history is still alarming.  The fact that we're last in the league in players drafted during his tenure who are still in the NFL and bottom 10 in guys drafted who are still with their original team is not good at all.  His FA signings for the most part have been boom or bust and the results are very mixed.  Granted, FA signings are less alarming to me than the poor draft history.  Most of us though the Tru signing was a good one and unfortunately, he's underperformed this year.  I don't think you can point too many fingers on that one.  

[Rockice_8]

@jetskid007

Sorry but totally disagree.  Yes GM's have up and down seasons but Mac has yet to have any good seasons in his 4 years.  Our vision should be to win games which they haven't done.  His draft record outside of the 1st round is among the worst in the sport.  Yes he found a QB but passed on a few others Maholmes and Watson only to trade valuable pieces to acquire one.  Let's not forget he's damn lucky to have Sam if the Giants were smart we'd have Rosen probably who is not on the same level as Sam or Mayfield.  He lucked into Sam.  He passed on those QB's because of Hack and not wanting to give up on him so soon.  As Barnaby said Idzik was railroaded out of town after two years and he did the same thing Mac did clear cap and mostly miss in the draft.

Fact is we need to start fielding a team around Sam while on his rookie contract.  We should be looking to be competitive by 2020.  I have zero faith Mac can take this money and do something with it.  You don't have to look much further than Trumaine Johnson and his awful contract.  Good teams don't have 100M in cap to work with.  That is not some high praise we should be patting Mac on the back for.  We have that much because we have no talent and no good players to sign.  It's not like in year 1 he traded the farm for a QB either.  He had all his picks to work with and continued to take older players at low impact positions.  He draft record speaks for itself.  It's not average it's among the worst in the sport and I see no reason he has earned another shot because of some arrange marriage by ownership.  He's been awful and Bowles should be pissed that he is getting canned and everyone is defending Mac when that is what he's been given to work with the past 4 seasons. 

 

[jetskid007]

12 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

If you look at Idzik's first two draft class vs. Mac's first two draft classes, Mac's drafts were barely better.  Granted, Idzik had more picks.  With that said, Mac's draft history is still alarming.  The fact that we're last in the league in players drafted during his tenure who are still in the NFL and bottom 10 in guys drafted who are still with their original team is not good at all.  His FA signings for the most part have been boom or bust and the results are very mixed.  Granted, FA signings are less alarming to me than the poor draft history.  Most of us though the Tru signing was a good one and unfortunately, he's underperformed this year.  I don't think you can point too many fingers on that one.  

1. Idzik had 19(!) picks. Maccagnan had 13. Idzik had 3 draft classes lumped into 2 (he had an additional 1st, two additional 4ths, and three additional 6ths). He also had #9, #13, and #18 in round 1 as opposed to #6 and #20. Furthermore, Sheldon Richardson is not better than Leo himself, let alone Leo and Lee. 
2. Leonard Williams, Darron Lee, Jordan Jenkins, Brandon Shell, Lachlan Edwards, and Charone Peak = Sheldon Richardson, Geno Smith, Brian Winters, Oday Oboushi, Dakota Dozier, and Quincy Enunwa? Because everyone else Idzik drafted is out of the league. 
3. You're judging Tru too quickly. When he's been healthy, he's played well. He leads the team in INTs, and is PFFs #18 rated corner (min 500 snaps). Overpaid? Yes. But we knew that already... he'll be a good corner for us, and willing to bet he'll make the probowl next year. 

[barnaby8787]

12 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

1. Idzik had 19(!) picks. Maccagnan had 13. Idzik had 3 draft classes lumped into 2 (he had an additional 1st, two additional 4ths, and three additional 6ths). He also had #9, #13, and #18 in round 1 as opposed to #6 and #20. Furthermore, Sheldon Richardson is not better than Leo himself, let alone Leo and Lee. 
2. Leonard Williams, Darron Lee, Jordan Jenkins, Brandon Shell, Lachlan Edwards, and Charone Peak = Sheldon Richardson, Geno Smith, Brian Winters, Oday Oboushi, Dakota Dozier, and Quincy Enunwa? Because everyone else Idzik drafted is out of the league. 
3. You're judging Tru too quickly. When he's been healthy, he's played well. He leads the team in INTs, and is PFFs #18 rated corner (min 500 snaps). Overpaid? Yes. But we knew that already... he'll be a good corner for us, and willing to bet he'll make the probowl next year. 

1) I notated that

2) I didn’t say Mac’s wasn’t better. I said it wasn’t significantly better. Also, Sheldon was better in our scheme than Leo was before he had to play LB.  We won’t agree there prob though. You’re also overrating Lee. 

3) His PFF rating is overrated because of his INT’s in buffalo. It’s based off of Passer rating against.  Take the BS pick that Allen just heaved up there and he likely drops to 40 or below. 

[jetskid007]

8 minutes ago, Rockice_8 said:

@jetskid007

Sorry but totally disagree.  Yes GM's have up and down seasons but Mac has yet to have any good seasons in his 4 years.  Our vision should be to win games which they haven't done.  His draft record outside of the 1st round is among the worst in the sport.  Yes he found a QB but passed on a few others Maholmes and Watson only to trade valuable pieces to acquire one.  Let's not forget he's damn lucky to have Sam if the Giants were smart we'd have Rosen probably who is not on the same level as Sam or Mayfield.  He lucked into Sam.  He passed on those QB's because of Hack and not wanting to give up on him so soon.  As Barnaby said Idzik was railroaded out of town after two years and he did the same thing Mac did clear cap and mostly miss in the draft.

You don't have to be sorry; its fine to disagree. 

But back it up. Show me that his record outside of round 1 is among the worst in the sport. Most teams - on average - land 3.5 players per draft class (assuming 7 picks). Usually 1 player will be good, 1 will be an average starter, and the remaining 1.5 is a contributor/special teamer. In his 28 picks he's drafted 8 starters (which is right in line with the average), 3 "contributors" (can't really judge 2018 yet, but I consider Shepherd in that category), and 4 special teamers (two of which are top tier in the NFL). He's been right around average. 

Also don't fail to leave out his draft record in round 1, as he's arguably the most consistent in that round than anyone outside of Telesco over the past 4 years. He's had all starters and no busts - all of which are 24 or younger. Despite how you feel about Lee coming off his suspension he was having a very good season (PFF rated him 20th among players with 500 snaps or more and had the 3rd highest coverage grade among starters). 

He's been right where a GM is expected to be. Yes, I agree he could've done things differently, but for the most part he has done what is expected out of a first time GM trying to rebuild a team from scratch... all his predecessors left him to work with were Muhammad Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Demario Davis, Brian Winters, Quincy Enunwa, and Bilal Powell... that's horrifying for an incoming GM. 

[barnaby8787]

1 minute ago, jetskid007 said:

You don't have to be sorry; its fine to disagree. 

But back it up. Show me that his record outside of round 1 is among the worst in the sport. Most teams - on average - land 3.5 players per draft class (assuming 7 picks). Usually 1 player will be good, 1 will be an average starter, and the remaining 1.5 is a contributor/special teamer. In his 28 picks he's drafted 8 starters (which is right in line with the average), 3 "contributors" (can't really judge 2018 yet, but I consider Shepherd in that category), and 4 special teamers (two of which are top tier in the NFL). He's been right around average. 

Also don't fail to leave out his draft record in round 1, as he's arguably the most consistent in that round than anyone outside of Telesco over the past 4 years. He's had all starters and no busts - all of which are 24 or younger. Despite how you feel about Lee coming off his suspension he was having a very good season (PFF rated him 20th among players with 500 snaps or more and had the 3rd highest coverage grade among starters). 

He's been right where a GM is expected to be. Yes, I agree he could've done things differently, but for the most part he has done what is expected out of a first time GM trying to rebuild a team from scratch... all his predecessors left him to work with were Muhammad Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Demario Davis, Brian Winters, Quincy Enunwa, and Bilal Powell... that's horrifying for an incoming GM. 

Since Mac took over, Jets are dead last in players drafted who are still in the league. Given that all of his first rounders are still on the team/in the league, that says he sucks at drafting outside of the first. 

[Dr.O]

Macc and Idzik both suck, not trying to troll but both have been bad and I don understand why we need to argue who sucked more

[barnaby8787]

Just now, Dr.O said:

Macc and Idzik both suck, not trying to troll but both have been bad and I don understand why we need to argue who sucked more

100%

[jetskid007]

12 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

1) I notated that

2) I didn’t say Mac’s wasn’t better. I said it wasn’t significantly better. Also, Sheldon was better in our scheme than Leo was before he had to play LB.  We won’t agree there prob though. You’re also overrating Lee. 

3) His PFF rating is overrated because of his INT’s in buffalo. It’s based off of Passer rating against.  Take the BS pick that Allen just heaved up there and he likely drops to 40 or below. 

1 & 2) I'm speaking in terms of you saying it was barely better on both counts. You can't argue that his draft class was barely better with the caveat that Idzik had more picks. He had 6 more picks, with one of them being a top 15 pick. Second, I do think Macc's drafts were substantially better. What has Sheldon done since he's left here? I think he was a player who caught fire early, but his flame has faded (like Wilk's did) due to a lack of discipline. 

3) Trumaine's passer rating allowed is 81.6, which is ranked #18 in the NFL.