Mike Maccagnan Thread

[barnaby8787]

51 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

Or you can go ask him; I'm not the one making the argument. His statement reads "Since 2015 the Jets rank last in drafted players still in the league and tied for 22nd with players still on their own team." This means total players. If he meant a percentage, he would've said so. Sorry if I'm coming off a little harsh, but you're trying to have an intelligent argument with a lawyer who is trained to pay attention to the details. 

It took me 5 minutes to select 5 random teams and calculate how many picks they've had from 2015-2018. 

• Cleveland: 45
• Minnesota: 37 
• Cincinnati: 38 
• New Orleans: 28
• Dallas: 35 

If you want to do an exercise to prove your point, go open an excel document, copy and past every player drafted by each team in the league over the past 4 years, highlight the ones out of the league in red, then highlight players (1) still on their respective teams in green and (2) still in the NFL but new team in yellow, and tally up each figure per team. Then, calculate those figures against how many draft picks each team had, and you'll come out with a formula. I'm willing to bet you $50 that the Jets % of players still on their team/out of the league compared to the number of draft picks is somewhere among league average (12-20). DM me for my venmo. 

You want to look like a smart guy? Go do your homework.

Otherwise you just look like a smartass with no argument to show for it... 

Told you dude, i'm not going to have a debate with you if you're going to continue to insult, etc.  Really necessary to call me a smartass?  You think the founder of Over the Cap is pulling stats out without being able to back it up?  Come on now.

[KingOfNewYork]

Macc sucks. No stats needed. 

[jetskid007]

25 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Told you dude, i'm not going to have a debate with you if you're going to continue to insult, etc.  Really necessary to call me a smartass?  You think the founder of Over the Cap is pulling stats out without being able to back it up?  Come on now.

Not calling you that, I’m saying unless you prove your point that’s how you’re perceived. 

Also not questioning what Jason wrote. I’m suggesting that you are talking it out of context. His statement is accurate when you take into account that the Jets are bottom 5 in terms of total draft picks since 2015. That doesn’t mean draft pick efficency has been poor. If team A has 45 picks and hit 26% of them versus team B with 28 picks and hit on 40%- the team A still has more players on their team than team B. Again, context. 

[jetskid007]

19 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Macc sucks. No stats needed. 

And this is why your options and perspectives are not respected

[Rockice_8]

33 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

Told you dude, i'm not going to have a debate with you if you're going to continue to insult, etc.  Really necessary to call me a smartass?  You think the founder of Over the Cap is pulling stats out without being able to back it up?  Come on now.

He wanted to point out his attention to detail and call you out when trying to back up your post then proceeds to give Mac credit for trading two 2nds to move up.  

Hard to criticize and then immediately post an incorrect statement.

Pretty clear no matter how many picks he's had (guess he could of had more if he didn't trade them away for some rental players and guys like Robinson) he hasn't been good with them.  Anderson was his lone nice trade actually but not exactly a franchise changer.

 

[mattmanz91]

I know I am in the minority here but I agree with jetskid, Macc hasn't been as bad as many fans think, and it seems jetskid has the facts to back that up. Most fans were very happy with the trades for Marshall and Fitz, now many are bashing those moves. I am willing to give Macc some more time and see what he can do. Hopefully he makes a few changes in the scouting department and they can find a few more mid round gems. 

Rams fans were calling for Les Snead to be fired for similar reasons fans want Macc fired. I'm willing to bet they are happy they still have him. 

[Rockice_8]

Just now, jetskid007 said:

And this is why your options and perspectives are not respected

To be fair barnaby backed his up with a tweet from respected journalist and you blasted him for it then proceed to use some arbitrary 1 player is good, 1 is average, and 2 are special teams players from each draft to say Mac had been good.

Fact is outside of skipping over franchise QB's in two drafts then trading "three" 2nds and lucking into Sam the rest of the roster blows with little to no cornerstone players at CB, LT, pass rusher, offensive playmaker (maybe Herndon if he keeps this up), and a pitiful OL all of which are his players except maybe the best one in Winters.  Adams is great but hard to praise him for a strong safety when a guy like Eddie Jackson was taken in like the 4th round 

We have no talent at the most important positions.  That's why people want him gone because we see his track record in 4 years and have little to no faith he can build around Sam. 

We are sick of always being the bridesmaid and never the bride.  We don't care how we almost landed this guy or were finalists for this player.  The roster sucks overall and isn't any better then it was 4 years ago.  That is what gets you fired.

[barnaby8787]

5 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

Not calling you that, I’m saying unless you prove your point that’s how you’re perceived. 

Also not questioning what Jason wrote. I’m suggesting that you are talking it out of context. His statement is accurate when you take into account that the Jets are bottom 5 in terms of total draft picks since 2015. That doesn’t mean draft pick efficency has been poor. If team A has 45 picks and hit 26% of them versus team B with 28 picks and hit on 40%- the team A still has more players on their team than team B. Again, context. 

That's how you perceive it my man.  Nobody else has questioned it.

Just going off of draft efficiency, 28.5% of Mac's picks are out of the league of the league.  8 in total.  So 8 of 28. are out of the league.  Out of those 28, 18 are still on the roster.  So 64% are still on the roster after four years.  

[Rockice_8]

18 minutes ago, jetskid007 said:

Not calling you that, I’m saying unless you prove your point that’s how you’re perceived. 

Also not questioning what Jason wrote. I’m suggesting that you are talking it out of context. His statement is accurate when you take into account that the Jets are bottom 5 in terms of total draft picks since 2015. That doesn’t mean draft pick efficency has been poor. If team A has 45 picks and hit 26% of them versus team B with 28 picks and hit on 40%- the team A still has more players on their team than team B. Again, context. 

Why is that?  Because Mac traded them away for 1 year rentals of guys like Clady/Marshall and busts like Robinson.  He only has himself to blame for lesser picks.  

With 0 playoff games to show for it.  If you are trading over older players then you better be a playoff team using said players to contribute in those games.

[barnaby8787]

13 minutes ago, mattmanz91 said:

I know I am in the minority here but I agree with jetskid, Macc hasn't been as bad as many fans think, and it seems jetskid has the facts to back that up. Most fans were very happy with the trades for Marshall and Fitz, now many are bashing those moves. I am willing to give Macc some more time and see what he can do. Hopefully he makes a few changes in the scouting department and they can find a few more mid round gems. 

Rams fans were calling for Les Snead to be fired for similar reasons fans want Macc fired. I'm willing to bet they are happy they still have him. 

Look at Les Sneads first four drafts:

First draft: Michael Brockers, Janoris Jenkins, Trumaine Johnson, Zuerlein.  

Second draft: Brutal. 

Third Draft: Aaron Donald, Lamarcus Joyner, EJ Gaines

Fourth Draft: Todd Gurley, Rob Havenstein

That's a TON of talent.  You're talking a handful of elite players at their respective positions.

[Rockice_8]

For a guy that preaches build through the draft why have we had the least amount of picks over the past 3 seasons?

How many of those trades are actually contributing for this team?  1? Anderson.  

[jetskid007]

13 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said:

That's how you perceive it my man.  Nobody else has questioned it.

Just going off of draft efficiency, 28.5% of Mac's picks are out of the league of the league.  8 in total.  So 8 of 28. are out of the league.  Out of those 28, 18 are still on the roster.  So 64% are still on the roster after four years.  

And again, compare those percentages to the rest of the league. Chances are it’s right smack in the middle. Which is why I’m saying while Jason’s statement is not incorrect, it is flawed. JoeSchmo could have had 28 picks over a 4 year span with 14 all-pros and 14 out of the league and that statement (“Since 2015 the Jets rank last in players...”) would still be correct. That’s what I’m saying. 

[barnaby8787]

1 minute ago, jetskid007 said:

And again, compare those percentages to the rest of the league. Chances are it’s right smack in the middle. Which is why I’m saying while Jason’s statement is not incorrect, it is flawed. JoeSchmo could have had 28 picks over a 4 year span with 14 all-pros and 14 out of the league and that statement (“Since 2015 the Jets rank last in players...”) would still be correct. That’s what I’m saying. 

It's 100% flawed, but Mac hasn't produced a ton of elite talent man.  Out of those 28 picks, he has 2 pro bowlers  (Jamal as a starter and Leo as an alternate).  

[Rockice_8]

Probowl is a joke too.  0 all pros.

We have a bad roster.  We can argue how good Williams or Adams is or how nice a find Herndon or Anderson were but the team is bad, the roster is bad and Macs hands have been on it for 4 years.  We swapped solid players from certain positions to solid players in others.  The roster is still bad just different.  This isn't two years in it's 4 years.

Lets just get back to the fact that no reputable HC is going to want to work with a lame duck.  Lets also stop the notion of the arranged marriage.  Mac had his say in hiring Bowles or at least agreed to it.

Clean the house, the whole house.

[ekill08x]

1 minute ago, Rockice_8 said:

Probowl is a joke too.  0 all pros.

We have a bad roster.  We can argue how good Williams or Adams is or how nice a find Herndon or Anderson were but the team is bad, the roster is bad and Macs hands have been on it for 4 years.  We swapped solid players from certain positions to solid players in others.  The roster is still bad just different.  This isn't two years in it's 4 years.

Lets just get back to the fact that no reputable HC is going to want to work with a lame duck.  Lets also stop the notion of the arranged marriage.  Mac had his say in hiring Bowles or at least agreed to it.

Clean the house, the whole house.

Agreed 100%. They have to, but they wont. Jets never do things the conventional way or even worse, the smart way. Mikey Mac is the worst drafting GM we have ever had.