KingOfNewYork Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 4 hours ago, jetskid007 said: And this is why your options and perspectives are not respected 2015 Draft 1- Leonard Williams, good pick. We could have went Gurley there but I dont do top 10 running backs. 2- Devin Smith, injury bust but even when healthy dude didn't do anything close to productive. 3- Lorenzo Mauldin- done, could have drafted David Johnson or Danielle Hunter or Jordan Hicks who all went within 6 picks after 4- Bryce Petty- done 5- Jarvis Harrison- done 7- Deon Simon- done -1/6 2016 Draft 1- Darron Lee- Good pick, I wont mention the likes of Deion Jones and Myles Jack 2- Christian Hackenberg- I actually liked this gamble but he and Bowles handled it all wrong. Anyway MISS 3- Jordan Jenkins- average? starter 4- Juston Burris- miss 5- Brandon Shell- Mid tier RT. 7- Lac Edwards- Good punter 7- Charone Peake- nothing offensively in terms of production, good ST contributor -4/7 2017 Draft 1- Jamal Adams- Duh, however Mahomes/Watson. 2- Marcus Maye- Hit 3- ArDarius Stewart- Strike 4- Chad Hansen- Strike 5- Jordan Leggett- Still on the team, average, maybe? 5- Dylan Donahue- He played hard off the field instead of on it 6- Elijah McGuire- Good pick 6- Jeremy Clark- Doesn't even play 7- Derrick Jones- Doesn't even play -3/9 So that's 8/22 not including this draft which isn't looking promising outside of Darnold and Herndon. Now let's add in -He hasn't built the O-Line with any of his resources. -No pass rushers to help get off the field on 3rd down. -His best picks have been the obvious choices but when he has to actually use his brain....good lord The dude is one of the worst GMs ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 And he didn't trade up for Darnold. If the Giants do the right thing and pick him we're down Allen or Rosen and while Rosen is better they probably were more enamored with Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doumeyer Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 3 hours ago, jetskid007 said: So the fact that the only players he was left to build around were Wilkerson, Richardson, Winters, Enunwa, and Powell had nothing to do with it? The coaching deserves no blame? The owner taking it upon himself to add Revis and create a win-now atmosphere is on him? Maccagnan convinced ownership we needed to undergo a full fledged rebuild after the disappointing 2016 season. Chris Johnson bought in. They’ve found their QB of the offense and defense. They’ve added solid veterans in Pennel, Beachum, Williamson, and Anderson, without taking out a mortgage. Outside of Adams and Darnold, they drafted pieces in Maye, McGuire, Shepherd, and Herndon with a few more players developing roles. There have been disappointments, but not defining ones. For the most part, these players have trended in the right direction. Maybe we haven’t progressed record wise, but needed to take a few steps back prior to taking a leap forward. That’s been the plan since 2016. Todd was given 2 years with a new staff and the expectation coming into this year is that he would need to show progress. Despite a clearly more talented roster, he failed to do so- hence why he’s a goner. Doesn’t mean Macc hasn’t done his part. Macc, has done well in his FA pick ups, but his drafting with all the high first & second round pick has been horrendous, Adams & leo. fell in his lap a Orangatang, could made those picks. From the third round on his drafting has been a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 What’s going on with Trumaine Johnson? Seems like an awful signing by Mac. Has underperformed, seriously overpaid, and now appears to be beefing with Bowles and even worse Adams. I know he was franchised twice but the Rams decided to go with an old Talib over a prime Johnson. His only defense is Bowles always finds a way to misuse players or get them to stop caring entirely. But right now this looks like a serious FA bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, GangGreen420 said: What’s going on with Trumaine Johnson? Seems like an awful signing by Mac. Has underperformed, seriously overpaid, and now appears to be beefing with Bowles and even worse Adams. I know he was franchised twice but the Rams decided to go with an old Talib over a prime Johnson. His only defense is Bowles always finds a way to misuse players or get them to stop caring entirely. But right now this looks like a serious FA bust. Is he beefing with Adams? I decided to boycott our media members so I’m not in the loop. Him and Jamal did have some communication issues last week so I know there’s that. Maybe they were going at it and Tru went too far. He’s been a top 10/15 Corner since coming back from injury but he was having a bad day last week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, KingOfTheDot said: Is he beefing with Adams? I decided to boycott our media members so I’m not in the loop. Him and Jamal did have some communication issues last week so I know there’s that. Maybe they were going at it and Tru went too far. He’s been a top 10/15 Corner since coming back from injury but he was having a bad day last week. I guess Adams called him out for being late on Twitter but it could be jokingly. After the Wilkerson/Sheldon stuff you can tell players lack discipline under this staff. Also, Nate Shepherd has shown us next to nothing his rookie year. That one isn’t looking good either. I know it’s early and he’s playing in a bad scheme but he’s already 25 and was like the 7th pick of the 3rd round. Usually we try to be optimistic about these things but it often doesn’t end well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 @KingOfTheDot I think you are being generous with your assessment. Lee wasn't really a good pick he's been pretty bad outside of this year where just maybe he's figured it out. Not sure how he'll end up moving forward. McGuire has been pretty mediocre as a runner and a really solid pass catcher. RB like him are a dime a dozen though. Leggett still on the team doesn't make him average either, he's likely out of the league sooner rather than later. I'm surprised he made the team this year over Walford to be honest. Finally Maye has been up and down too. Still too early to call him a hit. Availability is huge in the NFL and right now Maye just can't stay healthy for a full season. I like him and he has the potential but if he's only going to play 8-12 games a year hard to call him a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskid007 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 15 hours ago, barnaby8787 said: @jetskid007FYI, he responded. For clarity: @Jason_OTC FollowFollow @Jason_OTC More Replying to @barnaby8787 Pct drafted not total number. If you were interested in UDFAs as pct signed they rank 27th with UDFAs still on the Jets and 23 with players still in the NFL. I included PS in that since expectations are lower for a UDFA If that's indeed the case I apologize for my generalization, but Jason's wording is off here. His statement reads in terms of totals not percentages. Either way, yes the Jets 2015 draft class was a stinker. Other than Leo, every player is out of the league. Not going to make excuses for injuries (Smith and Mauldin) because he could've done better with those picks anyway. There's no denying that Christian Hackenberg and ArDarius Stewart were egregious picks in hindsight, but I get why he drafted them. Again, compare his first 4 drafts to some of the top executives in the game. Tom Telesco was the best comparison... Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2016 1 Joey Bosa 3 DE 2016 2 Hunter Henry 35 TE 2016 3 Max Tuerk 66 C out of NFL 2017 2016 4 Joshua Perry 102 ILB out of NFL 2017 2016 5 Jatavis Brown 175 OLB 2016 6 Drew Kaser 179 P out of NFL 2018 2016 6 Derek Watt 198 FB 2016 7 Donavon Clark 224 G out of NFL 2017 Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2015 1 Melvin Gordon 15 RB 2015 2 Denzel Perryman 48 ILB 2015 3 Craig Mager 83 CB 2015 5 Kyle Emanuel 153 OLB 2015 6 Darius Philon 192 DT Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2014 1 Jason Verrett 25 DB 2014 2 Jeremiah Attaochu 50 LB New team 2018 2014 3 Chris Watt 89 G out of NFL 2016 2014 5 Ryan Carrethers 165 DT out of NFL 2016 2014 6 Marion Grice 201 RB out of NFL 2015 2014 7 Tevin Reese 240 WR out of NFL 2014 Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2013 1 D.J. Fluker 11 T New team 2017 2013 2 Manti Te'o 38 LB New team 2017 2013 3 Keenan Allen 76 WR 2013 5 Steve Williams 145 DB out of NFL 2016 2013 6 Tourek Williams 179 DE out of NFL 2016 2013 7 Brad Sorensen out of NFL 2015 10/25 players out of the league 2017. 5 players who were drafted in rounds 1-3 who either busted or are low-impact players (Tuerk out of the league do to injury). Yet they still drafted Keenan Allen, Jason Verrett, Melvin Gordon, and Joey Bosa under his watch. Hunter Henry and Denzel Perryman were on their way prior to injury. Jatavis Brown is a spot-starter/backup. Watt, Emanuel, and Philon are backups/special teamers. It was enough to keep him his job because the drafts weren't total failures and he had the right vision for the team. Look where they are now. The other piece you have to consider is who are you replacing Maccagnan with? Unless you're getting a proven talent evaluator with experience as a GM the way the Browns did with Dorsey, are you really going to risk another reset under a new direction? I'm firmly in the camp of letting things play out. Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Sam Darnold are really good picks. The alternative to Darron Lee was Fuller/Doctson (weren't doing that since Devin Smith was still only coming of one injury) or Jackson, who you can certainly make an argument for picking. I still think Lee will be a good player. Then when you factor in the most recent draft class, the only player who I'm really sour on is Faukasi. Shepherd, Herndon, Nickerson, and Cannon have shown more flashes in limited action than any of our previous 3-7th round picks have in their rookie years (Jenkins/Shell didn't play much as rookies). Again, you can take whatever position you decide, but I'm fairly confident that Macc will be back, and I think the reshuffling of their scouting department last year will do them well. I think they're headed in the right direction. You hire a new GM, he's going to operate with scouts he's not accustomed to and you run the risk of another 2015 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 1 hour ago, jetskid007 said: If that's indeed the case I apologize for my generalization, but Jason's wording is off here. His statement reads in terms of totals not percentages. Either way, yes the Jets 2015 draft class was a stinker. Other than Leo, every player is out of the league. Not going to make excuses for injuries (Smith and Mauldin) because he could've done better with those picks anyway. There's no denying that Christian Hackenberg and ArDarius Stewart were egregious picks in hindsight, but I get why he drafted them. Again, compare his first 4 drafts to some of the top executives in the game. Tom Telesco was the best comparison... Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2016 1 Joey Bosa 3 DE 2016 2 Hunter Henry 35 TE 2016 3 Max Tuerk 66 C out of NFL 2017 2016 4 Joshua Perry 102 ILB out of NFL 2017 2016 5 Jatavis Brown 175 OLB 2016 6 Drew Kaser 179 P out of NFL 2018 2016 6 Derek Watt 198 FB 2016 7 Donavon Clark 224 G out of NFL 2017 Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2015 1 Melvin Gordon 15 RB 2015 2 Denzel Perryman 48 ILB 2015 3 Craig Mager 83 CB 2015 5 Kyle Emanuel 153 OLB 2015 6 Darius Philon 192 DT Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2014 1 Jason Verrett 25 DB 2014 2 Jeremiah Attaochu 50 LB New team 2018 2014 3 Chris Watt 89 G out of NFL 2016 2014 5 Ryan Carrethers 165 DT out of NFL 2016 2014 6 Marion Grice 201 RB out of NFL 2015 2014 7 Tevin Reese 240 WR out of NFL 2014 Year Rnd Player Pick Pos 2013 1 D.J. Fluker 11 T New team 2017 2013 2 Manti Te'o 38 LB New team 2017 2013 3 Keenan Allen 76 WR 2013 5 Steve Williams 145 DB out of NFL 2016 2013 6 Tourek Williams 179 DE out of NFL 2016 2013 7 Brad Sorensen out of NFL 2015 10/25 players out of the league 2017. 5 players who were drafted in rounds 1-3 who either busted or are low-impact players (Tuerk out of the league do to injury). Yet they still drafted Keenan Allen, Jason Verrett, Melvin Gordon, and Joey Bosa under his watch. Hunter Henry and Denzel Perryman were on their way prior to injury. Jatavis Brown is a spot-starter/backup. Watt, Emanuel, and Philon are backups/special teamers. It was enough to keep him his job because the drafts weren't total failures and he had the right vision for the team. Look where they are now. The other piece you have to consider is who are you replacing Maccagnan with? Unless you're getting a proven talent evaluator with experience as a GM the way the Browns did with Dorsey, are you really going to risk another reset under a new direction? I'm firmly in the camp of letting things play out. Leonard Williams, Jamal Adams, and Sam Darnold are really good picks. The alternative to Darron Lee was Fuller/Doctson (weren't doing that since Devin Smith was still only coming of one injury) or Jackson, who you can certainly make an argument for picking. I still think Lee will be a good player. Then when you factor in the most recent draft class, the only player who I'm really sour on is Faukasi. Shepherd, Herndon, Nickerson, and Cannon have shown more flashes in limited action than any of our previous 3-7th round picks have in their rookie years (Jenkins/Shell didn't play much as rookies). Again, you can take whatever position you decide, but I'm fairly confident that Macc will be back, and I think the reshuffling of their scouting department last year will do them well. I think they're headed in the right direction. You hire a new GM, he's going to operate with scouts he's not accustomed to and you run the risk of another 2015 draft. Telesco 100% benefitted from the team he took over, which I guess isn't fair to a guy like Mac. The Chargers stunk for two years, but given their core, he benefitted on keeping his job. In terms of GM options, I like Elliot Wolf. It's hard to say without knowing who will be out there. Saying Cannon has shown "flashes" is a bit much. I think he's a special teamer. Also, I do like Parry, but he hasn't flash anything yet. Also, what has Shepherd flashed exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnaby8787 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 On a bright note, PFF has Herndon as the #1 rated rookie TE in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockice_8 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, barnaby8787 said: On a bright note, PFF has Herndon as the #1 rated rookie TE in the league. Probably the one truly nice mid to late round pick Mac has made. Herndon looks like a future top 5 TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GangGreen420 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 2 hours ago, barnaby8787 said: On a bright note, PFF has Herndon as the #1 rated rookie TE in the league. He was actually rated the #5 TE OVERALL by PFF. Only behind Kittle, Kelce, cook, and Ertz. Hes looking like an excellent pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 13 hours ago, Rockice_8 said: @KingOfTheDot I think you are being generous with your assessment. Lee wasn't really a good pick he's been pretty bad outside of this year where just maybe he's figured it out. Not sure how he'll end up moving forward. McGuire has been pretty mediocre as a runner and a really solid pass catcher. RB like him are a dime a dozen though. Leggett still on the team doesn't make him average either, he's likely out of the league sooner rather than later. I'm surprised he made the team this year over Walford to be honest. Finally Maye has been up and down too. Still too early to call him a hit. Availability is huge in the NFL and right now Maye just can't stay healthy for a full season. I like him and he has the potential but if he's only going to play 8-12 games a year hard to call him a hit. Lee took steps this year, I haven’t been as down on him as others. McGuire has also looked good imo coming back from injury agree on Leggett tho he’s shown good hands. Sam likes his tight ends. Maye was a top 7 Safety according to PFF when he went down. He transforms this defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfNewYork Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Cannon has shown the burst I expected but his vision and patience is lacking. Put Powell’s vision and patience and toughness in Cannon’s body and you have a top 10 Running Back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.O Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Macc and Idzik suck, Macc sucks slightly less for lucking into Sam, Ideally I would move on from him but I doubt we do that being that he got us Sam, Herndon, and Jamal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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