Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[WizeGuy]

8 minutes ago, mistakey said:

https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article242957701.html

The Missouri Department of Health and Senior Services announced Saturday that it had combined antibody and viral coronavirus testing data, creating an artificially lower percentage of positive tests in the state.
 

The CDC gave “specific instructions” to staff to report combined testing data, DHSS spokeswoman Lisa Cox said, but that leadership did not learn of the directions until Thursday night.

 

“We would have never imagined that they would’ve been advised to combine this data when reporting to them,” Cox said.

During a Thursday press conference, when Williams was asked if statewide testing data included antibody tests, he said those numbers did not.

“About four states have gotten in a lot of trouble because they tried to conflate their numbers, I think to drive up their numbers, and we don’t do that here in Missouri.” Williams said.

Williams said in a statement that he was “very concerned” that the CDC had advised the staff to combine the test results.


 

 

 

really cant wait until we can trust our govt again

It wont happen in our lifetimes, unfortunately. 

[mistakey]

13 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

You might be waiting a while

yep

[vikesfan89]

2 minutes ago, mistakey said:

yep

At least we agree on 1 thing

[naptownskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

Everything's to scale however and the rural communities have lesser healthcare capacities as well.

Frankly, I dont get the whole "need to go to church to worship" thing. I'm not a practitioner, so there's that - but what substantive difference is there getting together when it could endanger lives versus quietly worshiping your god at home? Seems more like a political statement than an actual need to "worship."

I've made it clear that I'm very much a practitioner here and amongst my friends, and even I think it's a bit premature to be opening churches at this point, and I'm absolutely against the groups who planned to defy stay at home orders.  

A church sanctuary is a very enclosed space and carries a lot of risk.  Even limiting distancing, requiring masks and no singing may not do it. 

[vikesfan89]

19 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I've made it clear that I'm very much a practitioner here and amongst my friends, and even I think it's a bit premature to be opening churches at this point, and I'm absolutely against the groups who planned to defy stay at home orders.  

A church sanctuary is a very enclosed space and carries a lot of risk.  Even limiting distancing, requiring masks and no singing may not do it. 

I think the problem in Minnesota was that he was allowing restaurants and salons to open in some compacity but I don't think he even mentioned places of worship in his plan to get "non essential" places open.

I think the leaders would have went along with it if he had made some allowances for outdoor services

[acowboys62]

2 hours ago, candyman93 said:

You realize there’s a very real possibility this gets up to 250-300,000 deaths? 
 

Would you have made similar comments after WWII?

Probably, I’m a bit of a prick and don’t like how many of these media outlets handle this. I think most deaths, no matter the cause, should be acknowledged in some fashion. And that includes other illnesses, accidents, anything where innocent lives are lost due to circumstances out of their control is sad. 

[naptownskinsfan]

12 minutes ago, vikesfan89 said:

I think the problem in Minnesota was that he was allowing restaurants and salons to open in some compacity but I don't think he even mentioned places of worship in his plan to get "non essential" places open.

I think the leaders would have went along with it if he had made some allowances for outdoor services

But some churches may not have the availability or land to do outdoor services.  So I am sure that some people would try to flock to the outdoor services in some areas, and I know that the churches are trying to limit who is coming, and also need to have contact tracing for every service. 

I think if governors addressed that freedom of religion is important for the country, and that there are still huge concerns and items to work around for having socially distanced church services and that they had people working on it, instead of opening up other things and ignoring it, there would be much less of an issue.  We would still see a fringe having issues with it, but you wouldn't see larger churches or groups planning to defy local orders.  

[TVScout]

That NYT Tweet has disappeared. Here is the actual image:

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/05/24/nytfrontpage/scan.pdf?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200524&instance_id=18744&nl=the-morning&regi_id=127802529&segment_id=29017&te=1&user_id=0ec3b530f45ff5c070e34ae9b6fc8ea1

[TVScout]

The daily freebies:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/national/coronavirus-us-cases-deaths/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/mapping-spread-new-coronavirus/

Supplemental:

C.D.C. Test Counting Error Leaves Epidemiologists ‘Really Baffled’

Quote

WASHINGTON — As it tracks the coronavirus’s spread, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is combining tests that detect active infection with those that detect recovery from Covid-19 — a system that muddies the picture of the pandemic but raises the percentage of Americans tested as President Trump boasts about testing. 

Now that serology tests, which look for antibodies in the blood of people who have recovered, are more widespread, C.D.C. officials said Friday they would work to separate them from the results of diagnostic tests, which detect active infection. One of the agency’s data tracker websites has been lumping them together.  

Stunned epidemiologists say data from antibody tests and active virus tests should never be mixed because diagnostic testing seeks to quantify the amount of active disease in the population. Serological testing can also be unreliable. And patients who have had both diagnostic and serology tests would be counted twice in the totals.

 

“It just doesn’t make any sense; all of us are really baffled,” said Natalie Dean, a biostatistician at the University of Florida.  

Epidemiologists, state health officials and a spokeswoman for the C.D.C. said there was no ill intent; they attributed the flawed reporting system to confusion and fatigue in overworked state and local health departments that typically track infections — not tests — during outbreaks. The C.D.C. relies on states to report their data.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/politics/coronavirus-tests-cdc.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20200524&instance_id=18744&nl=the-morning&regi_id=127802529&segment_id=29017&te=1&user_id=0ec3b530f45ff5c070e34ae9b6fc8ea1

[TVScout]

13 hours ago, mission27 said:

Tbh I'm always a little skeptical of this stuff but realistically itd be very hard to determine that you didn't already have multiple people in the ground infected right?

It is possible to determine who got infected first.

[MacReady]

2 hours ago, Leader said:

Frankly, I dont get the whole "need to go to church to worship" thing. I'm not a practitioner, so there's that - but what substantive difference is there getting together when it could endanger lives versus quietly worshiping your god at home? Seems more like a political statement than an actual need to "worship."

None whatsoever.  Practitioner here, but have not been to a church in 7 years.  It's 2020.  Streaming is perfectly acceptable.  Not that I stream either.  Sorry, God.  My old church is doing drive-in services, which I think is really cool.  Gives them the chance for that social interaction they're all missing while social distancing. 

I am 100% for every single church, churchgoer, pastor or whatever to have the right to go to a church and worship any religion.  That's American.  If anybody asked me if they SHOULD, however... That's a different story.  I would tell them a resounding NO. 

[Leader]

17 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

None whatsoever.  Practitioner here, but have not been to a church in 7 years.  It's 2020.  Streaming is perfectly acceptable.  Not that I stream either.  Sorry, God.  My old church is doing drive-in services, which I think is really cool.  Gives them the chance for that social interaction they're all missing while social distancing. I am 100% for every single church, churchgoer, pastor or whatever to have the right to go to a church and worship any religion.  That's American.  If anybody asked me if they SHOULD, however... That's a different story.  I would tell them a resounding NO. 

Freedom of religion isnt on my radar screen at this juncture and not with this topic. That only applies in separation of church and state matters - and for that - I'm a believer. I've got no hassle whatsoever with others finding a meaning and perspective in religion. If it works for them - have at it - just leave it outside the statehouse door (so to speak).

No - I was referring to the need to go to church now (of all times). I just dont see the need and honestly, I view the "forcefulness" of the "we need to congregate" folks a bit....well, forced.

[Leader]

57 minutes ago, acowboys62 said:

Probably, I’m a bit of a prick and don’t like how many of these media outlets handle this. I think most deaths, no matter the cause, should be acknowledged in some fashion.

They are. They're just not "headline news" - nor should they be.

Loss of 100,000+ lives in something over two months (?) with no "cure" or "remedy" is sight currently and "dispute" (real and/or contrived) over how an organized society is to function (?) when there's no single mandate or path but rather hybrids applicable to differing circumstances/forums, regions etc based on density issues......thats HEADLINE NEWS - as it should be.

1 hour ago, acowboys62 said:

...that includes other illnesses, accidents, anything where innocent lives are lost due to circumstances out of their control is sad. 

We're the living embodiment of a society "living with cancer" -- it's been ingrained in our society for generations now. Our toxic lifestyle is part of us now. We've become one with it. Cant escape it. Thats no longer the stuff of daily coverage.

Nor are death by car accidents etc for which are so prevalent / common place statistical norms or averages can be established. Within some variance, they just are at this point. 

Loss of life is sad. Always will be. Doesnt make it the fodder of daily reporting.

 

[vikesfan89]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

But some churches may not have the availability or land to do outdoor services.  So I am sure that some people would try to flock to the outdoor services in some areas, and I know that the churches are trying to limit who is coming, and also need to have contact tracing for every service. 

I think if governors addressed that freedom of religion is important for the country, and that there are still huge concerns and items to work around for having socially distanced church services and that they had people working on it, instead of opening up other things and ignoring it, there would be much less of an issue.  We would still see a fringe having issues with it, but you wouldn't see larger churches or groups planning to defy local orders.  

I agree with the bolded. The churches opening was coming from the top down and not just  individual churches opening. It seems like they have a good plan but I have no idea how they are going to make it work. 

The more things that are closed,  the more people will try to get into the things that are open. I think Minnesota Set a record for the most fishing licenses sold 

[theJ]

Guys

Drop the religion talk

I'd really love to jump in there with you, because it's a good discussion and I think you've all missed some key points on the side of those who want to congregate. But, we can't do that here.

So we're done with that.