Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[ramssuperbowl99]

13 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

If they don't drink and I say nothing, their selfishness becomes mine. I will beat the drum to save lives as much as I can. Even if one person realizes their misguided POV, its a big win. The way stupidity wins is if we let it go on out of frustration. 

It's not stupidity. He knows. He doesn't care. His first post right after this was taunting me over how we weren't going to be friends because he wasn't going to get this vaccine. Hell, he's admitted his own sister is high risk - he values that risk to her life at less than the inconvenience of a 10 minute doctor appointment and the high of not doing what other people tell him he should. You're not going to convince someone with a value system like that to make a mature, selfless decision.

I get that you're appealing to a neutral third party here, but if someone is going to say a hard no at this point, they've become "anti-establishment" to the point that they're just a troll. There's no reasonable, permanent objection to the vaccine based on safety today: if someone had legitimate safety fears they'd say they want to wait first. And I bet you have a much better time convincing the "I want to wait" people than you'll ever have convincing people who get off on being a contrarian for the sake of it.

Edited December 8, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99

[Deadpulse]

7 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

It's not stupidity. He knows. He doesn't care. His first post right after this was taunting me over how we weren't going to be friends because he wasn't going to get this vaccine. Hell, he's admitted his own sister is high risk - he values that risk to her life at less than the inconvenience of a 10 minute doctor appointment and the high of not doing what other people tell him he should. You're not going to convince someone with a value system like that to make a mature, selfless decision.

I get that you're appealing to a neutral third party here, but if someone is going to say a hard no at this point, they've become "anti-establishment" to the point that they're just a troll. There's no reasonable, permanent objection to the vaccine based on safety today: if someone had legitimate safety fears they'd say they want to wait first. And I bet you have a much better time convincing the "I want to wait" people than you'll ever have convincing people who get off on being a contrarian for the sake of it.

I understand what you're saying, I do. However, I wouldn't be me if I just let it go for people I deem as 'lost causes' so to speak. If someone is being selfish, I will call it out. I refuse to be the person to sit idly even if it is futile, as you say. 

The 'I want to wait' people really shouldn't exist. By the time vaccine are available for the general public, or even people outside of medical facilities, the waiting period will likely have passed since those first in line will start getting it in a week or so and it will be legitimate months prior to mass release. The 'wait and see' is built in. 

[BobbyPhil1781]

"I want to wait"??..... WTF do you think we've been doing the last 9 months?? I've waited long enough

[Johnny Nix]

1 hour ago, Deadpulse said:

Ah, an intellectual 

If you want to be a human guinea pig, that’s cool. But not everyone shares the same mindset as you. That doesn’t make him or anyone else selfish. It’s his body, if he doesn’t want a vaccine thats his choice. So get off your socialist high horse and realize this is America. 
 

I also agree with him 100%, as I’m a healthcare worker and I will not be getting it either. 

[Deadpulse]

1 hour ago, Johnny Nix said:

If you want to be a human guinea pig, that’s cool. But not everyone shares the same mindset as you. That doesn’t make him or anyone else selfish. It’s his body, if he doesn’t want a vaccine thats his choice. So get off your socialist high horse and realize this is America. 
 

I also agree with him 100%, as I’m a healthcare worker and I will not be getting it either. 

Being a healthcare worker does not make you more knowledgeable. These vaccines have ALREADY been tested, so the 'human guinea pig' comment is completely unfounded. Even outside of that, there will be plenty of people who have had it for months prior to it being available to the masses, if anything they are that extra test people seem to want for some irrational reason. 

It DOES make him, and you, selfish. This pandemic does not end if people don't get this vaccine. The economy continues to suffer. The country continues to suffer. People continue to suffer and die. How does that not make you selfish? I need a reason besides you spouting out terms like 'socialist' (which I am not, by practice), 'it's his body' (which is ironic AF), and 'this is America' (which it most certainly is, so you'd think you'd want to help PROTECT America by doing your part. This is a matter of public health, not civil liberties); those aren't reasons, they are debased and irrelevant diatribe that dont even apply. 

Bottom line, if you'd like to keep these mask ordinances in place for the rest of the decade, if you are all about the economy continuing to dip, if you can't wait to see society continue to collapse, and if you are good with catching this virus and spreading it to increase the likelihood of death, suffering, and/or long term affects that ruin someone's life if not take loved ones from them, then go ahead, don't get the vaccine. However if you sit there and tell me its NOT being selfish, well than sir, you don't know what that means and you have the most myopic view of the world I have ever encountered. America is about the people, and you seem to have a morbid indifference for your fellow American. America WILL fall behind the world if most people have your outlook. America will fail if this pandemic continues for us and not for the rest of the world. Bravo, well done, great man here. Don't worry people, HE will be ok, and that's all that seems to matter I guess. 

[Johnny Nix]

26 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

Being a healthcare worker does not make you more knowledgeable. These vaccines have ALREADY been tested, so the 'human guinea pig' comment is completely unfounded. Even outside of that, there will be plenty of people who have had it for months prior to it being available to the masses, if anything they are that extra test people seem to want for some irrational reason. 

I never said I am more knowledgeable, simply that I am one of the first to be offered an opportunity to get the vaccine. These mRNA vaccines have never been approved before, but a rushed vaccine (that may not even effective past 30 days) with unknown side effects for a virus that isn’t that deadly for the majority of the population is a no go for me, until they do more studies on it. 

 

29 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

It DOES make him, and you, selfish. This pandemic does not end if people don't get this vaccine. The economy continues to suffer. The country continues to suffer. People continue to suffer and die. How does that not make you selfish? I need a reason besides you spouting out terms like 'socialist' (which I am not, by practice), 'it's his body' (which is ironic AF), and 'this is America' (which it most certainly is, so you'd think you'd want to help PROTECT America by doing your part. This is a matter of public health, not civil liberties); those aren't reasons, they are debased and irrelevant diatribe that dont even apply. 

No it doesn’t make us selfish. We view this whole situation different than you do. If it were up to me I would deliver the vaccine first to those who are affected most, the elderly and immunocompromised. The economy shouldn’t have to suffer, but these politicians are playing games. I hate to break it to you, but life isn’t full of rainbows and butterflies. People die everyday. There are many viruses/diseases that are far worse than this. And it is ironic that y’all use “my body my choice” for everything else, that’s why I brought it up. I want us to move forward as a country by making smart decisions. Protect the at risk (who would be safe if they took the vaccine right?), open the economy, and continue to research this thing until we have a safe and viable option, not new controversial technology that we do not fully understand. 
 

 

Bottom line is, our politicians have taken advantage of this virus to accomplish their narrative and have lost the trust of the American people. Racing to develop a new “breakthrough” vaccine that has never been approved before by the CDC just to get something out there, especially the ones by Pfizer and Moderna, just doesn’t seem like a safe option for the majority of the population that are largely unaffected by the virus. I fully support those at risk to take the vaccine if they feel it is their best option. Not everything is black and white, there are many factors at play, and you are putting way too much trust in a system that continues to take advantage of naive people just like you. The numbers don’t add up to take an experimental vaccine. I follow my gut, and my gut tells me that something is not right with this. 
 

what I would like to know from you is, if those at risk get the vaccine are they not safe from people like us who don’t? So what’s the problem?

[Deadpulse]

41 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

There are many viruses/diseases that are far worse than this.

A lot of your post talks about black and white and not seeing nuances, but right here is an example of yourself being myopic. Cancer sure as ish exists and is definitely more deadly to the individual. However this is on a GRAND scale. It is the scale of this that is dangerous. It cripples our health system. It spread RAPIDLY, giving one person, one mistake, the opportunity to be deadly. 

 

41 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

I want us to move forward as a country by making smart decisions. Protect the at risk (who would be safe if they took the vaccine right?), open the economy, and continue to research this thing until we have a safe and viable option, not new controversial technology that we do not fully understand. 

I understand this sentiment, I do. However, it is not feasible. To elaborate on what I said above, just giving it to the at risk and then going fully open would be devastating. Currently, most of the country has some semblance of PPE happening. Some incredibly strict. If we were to only vaccinate the at risk (which doesn't mean they are immune, I will touch on this later), and then open up our hospitals would be completely overwhelmed. Hell, they already are. This disease spreads so fast and has such random effects on people, even healthy individuals, that a complete opening with on a small partial of the population vaccinated would see the death rate increase exponentially due to lack of care. Again, logically, your point makes sense. Yes, MOST healthy people will be fine, as far as we know, after getting it. However most is not all and the rate of infection with everyone returning to normal would be so high that the amount of people who need medical attention would balloon to unsupportable amounts. People who wouldnt die today, despite our medical system being stretched thin with pop up clinics due to record numbers (which would be tripled at least in your scenario), would assuredly die without care in those months to come that you are proposing. The death rate of this virus comes down to how well we can treat it. We are not prepared for that number NOW. That is why the death rate has gone up in the past month or so. The more people who get this thing the more taxed our health system becomes, the more people die or suffer long term effects. Aside from that, it wont actually help the economy if the medical industry collapses from a reopening. 

41 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

Bottom line is, our politicians have taken advantage of this virus to accomplish their narrative and have lost the trust of the American people.

I agree, it is why I everything I have said is based on scientific research and expert study. Nothing of what I said has anything to do with politics or politicians. The experts have deemed this safe. 

 

41 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

The numbers don’t add up to take an experimental vaccine.

What numbers? The infected cumulative rising? The deaths rising? The death rate rising? Was this fast? Yes. Was the development unprecedented? Yes. However, speaking outside of black and white per your request, you can't go apples to oranges in terms of this vaccine and the timeline for others. 1st and foremost, we have vaccine for similar viruses to act as a jumping off part. COVID-19 is related to SARS. Both COVID-19 and SARS are caused by coronaviruses. The virus that causes SARS is known as SARS-CoV, while the virus that causes COVID-19 is known as SARS-CoV-2. We have a vaccine for SARS-CoV, therefore we are not starting from scratch. That vaccine took 5 years. Another thing to make it unprecedented is that everyone in the world was working on this. Almost all research and development was placed on getting this vaccine out. The entire modern world was affected and that has NEVER happened before. There were more resources put on this than any other vaccine in history by A LOT. I am not going to sit here and completely dismiss concerns. It IS fast. I get how logically people can get to that thought. However, every independent study, peer review, medical journal, etc etc has deemed this safe. Again, I am NOT talking about what a politician says. I am speaking to what science says, and science says there is not a reason to worry. To put it simply, this:

41 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

you are putting way too much trust in a system that continues to take advantage of naive people

is absolutely NOT what I am doing. I am thinking for myself. I am doing the research. I am reading everything I can, and I am coming to my own conclusion. The mindset of being disillusioned by the system is a scape goat argument. You can be disillusioned and still accept fact for fact. The system didn't dictate these vaccines because they are independent of the system of which you speak. 

41 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

I follow my gut, and my gut tells me that something is not right with this. 

You should follow the facts, not your intestinal track. 

 

41 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

what I would like to know from you is, if those at risk get the vaccine are they not safe from people like us who don’t? So what’s the problem?

They are NOT safe. They are less likely to get it, yes. However this does not offer immunity, especially if most of the population is not vaccinated. That is, and never has been, how vaccines work. Vaccines are designed with the idea that almost everyone takes it. No vaccine has or ever will be 100%, however the reason Measles is(was) eradicated is because EVERYONE took the vaccine, not some people. People who get the flu shot still get the flu and are even LIKELY to get it if everyone around them DIDNT get the flu shot. Are they less likely to get seriously sick from it if they do get it after the vaccine? Yes, however because we are talking about the at risk, that decrease is fairly negligible. Those who are already on vents, for instance, are still going to die if they get it after being vaccinated from someone who isn't. The best way to protect the at risk is not to vaccinate them, but to vaccinate everyone around them. The idea is that the viral load is SIGNIFICANTLY decreased after receiving the vaccine. It is because of this that not only will the vaccinated have their immune system more ready to fight it off, they are also much less likely to spread the virus because of the lower viral load. I will reiterate that SPREAD is the most important thing to combat with this virus. 

[Xenos]

3 hours ago, Johnny Nix said:

If everyone jumped off a cliff... would you?

I would wear a mask and get vaccinated. So no.

[Xenos]

5 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

Not looking to get political. But this obviously isn’t good. It likely pushes back our return to normal by quite a bit. 
 

Sounds like the government wanted to wait until there was an FDA approved vaccine. Other countries went ahead and bought ahead of time which pushes us down the line. 

I mean I can’t really fault them for wanting to wait for FDA approval first. It sucks that we got pushed down but I would do the same thing also without benefit of hindsight. Let’s hope Moderna and other viable vaccines make up for the shortfall.

[Johnny Nix]

@Deadpulse

the numbers I’m talking about are deaths vs cases. Breaking it down into demographics. You’ve seen them, I don’t need to explain. 
 

the point is, I and plenty of other Americans aren’t gonna take the mRNA vaccines. I will research and wait for the other vaccines to come out and make a decision then. 
 

and you should never use the Flu vaccine in an argument...

[Deadpulse]

1 minute ago, Johnny Nix said:

I will research

do more, I implore you

[Johnny Nix]

5 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

do more, I implore you

I’m good with my decision. 

[Deadpulse]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said:

I’m good with my decision. 

So you would shun informed information because it might go against a decision you have already come to without all the facts? Makes total sense. 

[Johnny Nix]

26 minutes ago, Deadpulse said:

So you would shun informed information because it might go against a decision you have already come to without all the facts? Makes total sense. 

I have researched it. But go ahead and give me your additional facts to weigh. 

[TLO]

It’s terrifying that this guy works in healthcare tbh