theJ Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said: I don’t believe masks work to the point that naive people think they do. Do they help some, sure I guess, until they go touch a door handle then eat a cheeseburger. Yeah you can't be careless with personal hygiene just because of the mask. And wearing one while around someone for 8 hrs means your chances of passing something is much higher. However, the data on transmission prevention in shorter contact is pretty undeniable IMO. They work in some scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said: I don’t think we’ve done anything to stop what would have happened regardless. I don’t believe masks work to the point that naive people think they do. Do they help some, sure I guess, until they go touch a door handle then eat a cheeseburger. Like I said before. I am not anti-vax. I am anti this vaccine, due to how quickly its come out, it being new technology which has never been approved before (and technically still hasn’t been approved, only in an emergency setting because there are no other options yet). I encourage all affected demographics to get the vaccine if they feel it is necessary. that being said, I wish you well sir and hope you have a good night cool. just be prepared not to participate fully in our vaccinated society, then. it's your choice as it is our's to disallow you to do so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said: Seems like a great can of worms to open up. If I’m not mistaken, I believe our founding fathers had a similar issue of personal freedoms with England... lol yeah i bet https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653186/ Quote "In 1736 I lost one of my sons, a fine boy of four years old, by the smallpox taken in the common way. I long regretted bitterly and still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation. This I mention for the sake of the parents who omit that operation, on the supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a child died under it; my example showing that the regret may be the same either way, and that, therefore, the safer should be chosen."-Ben Goddam Franklin Ben Franklin would be rolling over in his grave at the thought of you using his ghost to avoid vaccinating people. And the man wasn't exactly a champion in disease prevention if you get my drift. @mission27 can handle the follow up questions. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, theJ said: I would imagine that some employers will make a condition of employment. This, afaik, doesn't violate any laws. It removes liability for potentially exposing employees to COVID, which may or may not be against the law depending on stimulus negotiations. Employers would be absolutely nuts to not require vaccination, if for no other reason as an additional bullet point to make their case look better against any employees who sue for damages due to unreasonable exposure during the pandemic. Edited December 11, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: lol yeah i bet https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653186/ Ben Franklin would be rolling over in his grave at the thought of you using his ghost to avoid vaccinating people. And the man wasn't exactly a champion in disease prevention if you get my drift. @mission27 can handle the follow up questions. If this is a joke about me contracting syphilis from a whore in Paris, then bravo, but that hits a little too close to home tbh 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 37 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said: I don’t think we’ve done anything to stop what would have happened regardless. I don’t believe masks work to the point that naive people think they do. Do they help some, sure I guess, until they go touch a door handle then eat a cheeseburger. Like I said before. I am not anti-vax. I am anti this vaccine, due to how quickly its come out, it being new technology which has never been approved before (and technically still hasn’t been approved, only in an emergency setting because there are no other options yet). I encourage all affected demographics to get the vaccine if they feel it is necessary. that being said, I wish you well sir and hope you have a good night Masks do work. They’re a great mitigation tool that’s easy to use and it’s why countries that have a more dense population than we do, like Japan, have managed to control the spread without locking down. But it needs near universal buy in for it to work. And Americans are selfish people who see masks as a political statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Johnny Nix said: I don’t believe masks work to the point that naive people think they do I want to revisit this because it reeks of hubris and naivety of its own. What point do you think they work to? and what makes you believe that? Who is naive? and what point do THOSE people think they work to? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Nix Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I want to revisit this because it reeks of hubris and naivety of its own. What point do you think they work to? and what makes you believe that? Who is naive? and what point do THOSE people think they work to? They work until someone touches their face without washing their hands. The virus can also get into the eyes as well, do you know how many times a day people touch their faces unknowingly? People reuse the same mask over and over. Hell my work makes us reuse the same masks until they are “contaminated” due to the PPE shortages. Well define contaminated. Is contaminated wearing my mask around COVID patients, then when I go home putting it in a bag, then when I come back to work, taking it out of the bag and putting it back on. Common sense seems to be lost these days. Do masks work? Maybe to a point, But people in this world act like the reason people are dying is because more people aren’t wearing masks. No the reason people are dying is because people have poor hygiene and are frankly careless. You could do everything right 99% of the day, all it takes is that one second of carelessness to be exposed. But I guess when most Americans have a +99% recovery rate, I can’t say I blame them for not freaking out. Edited December 11, 2020 by Johnny Nix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said: They work until someone touches their face without washing their hands. The virus can also get into the eyes as well, do you know how many times a day people touch their faces unknowingly? People reuse the same mask over and over. Hell my work makes us reuse the same masks until they are “contaminated” due to the PPE shortages. Well define contaminated. Is contaminated wearing my mask around COVID patients, then when I go home putting it in a bag, then when I come back to work, taking it out of the bag and putting it back on. Common sense seems to be lost these days. Do masks work? Maybe to a point, But people in this world act like the reason people are dying is because more people aren’t wearing masks. No the reason people are dying is because people have poor hygiene and are frankly careless. You could do everything right 99% of the day, all it takes is that one second of carelessness to be exposed. But I guess when most Americans have a +99% recovery rate, I can’t say I blame them for not freaking out. what is your specific role in "health care"? Are you aware that the viral load a person is subjected to matters a lot in their outcome? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Nix Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 13 minutes ago, incognito_man said: what is your specific role in "health care"? Are you aware that the viral load a person is subjected to matters a lot in their outcome? I’m a Firefighter/Paramedic Yes I know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 6 minutes ago, Johnny Nix said: I’m a Firefighter/Paramedic Yes I know that. and you believe that your background and training as a firefighter/paramedic has left you less naïve than the world's foremost epidemiologists (who disagree with your stance) regarding Covid-19? Or who is naive relative to your non-naivety? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Johnny Nix said: Unfortunately as a healthcare worker/first responder I may end up having to get it with where the country is headed. They are saying it’s optional right now, but I don’t see that lasting long. Already hearing rumors of them making it so you have to show proof of vaccination to do anything. Doubtful. As mentioned earlier in this thread- I believe every hospital has their own guidelines when it comes to mandatory vaccines. My hospital doesn't make the flu vaccine mandatory and have said the COVID vaccine will not be mandatory either. I haven't heard anything that would make me think otherwise. I work directly with nurse managers and the nursing director (among other higher-ups), so I'm pretty well connected with what is going on at our hospital. That being said, I'm not a fan of forcing people to take a vaccine. A lot of anxiety surrounding this vaccine is the fact that A) It's hard to educate the masses on how these vaccines were accelerated to completion and B) Long-term effects are still unknown, though I believe a majority of experts are in agreement that mRNA vaccines are safe; they've been studying mRNA drugs and vaccines for over a decade from what I've read. Forcing people to take a vaccine + people pointing to every 'supposed side effect' like Uncle Buck dying of a heart attack an hour later= even more distrust in science. Educate people, Relieve some anxiety, and try to reach that 60%-70% threshold needed (via natural and vaccinated immunity). That's my uneducated option on it, anyways. Edited December 11, 2020 by WizeGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Johnny Nix said: I don’t believe masks work to the point that naive people think they do. Do they help some, sure I guess, until they go touch a door handle then eat a cheeseburger. They work pretty ******* well at my hospital. Our infectious disease director said the prevalence of the virus is 50% less in our hospital than out in the general public. Now, good ventilation may help with that, but he attributes it to strong mask usage. Not all healthcare workers are playing by the guidelines, either. We've had a ton of breakouts outside of work due to nurses partying in hotel rooms without masks, etc...the crazy thing, and I'm sure as a healthcare worker you know this- we can't social distance AT ALL on the ICUs. If a code hits there's typically 15 people crammed inside/around a patient room. The breakouts within the hospital are starting from outside of work (parties) and transmitted via nurses eating lunch together. We haven't had any major outbreaks on a unit within the hospital only outside of work. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Nix Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 6 hours ago, incognito_man said: and you believe that your background and training as a firefighter/paramedic has left you less naïve than the world's foremost epidemiologists (who disagree with your stance) regarding Covid-19? Or who is naive relative to your non-naivety? I’m talking about the general public. We’ve conditioned people to become nasty to others who aren’t wearing a mask. The other day mine broke while I was in the store, so i pulled my sweatshirt up over my face. You wouldn’t believe how many people made comments about “sir you need to wear a mask” or “you know that’s not doing anything right?” talk about being so conditioned to that message that you lose common sense all together. When I replied that my mask had broke, and my sweatshirt was doing the same thing as a mask would, they would roll their eyes or make another nasty but uneducated comment. again I’m not Anti-mask either. There’s just a lot of variables that make them ineffective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadpulse Posted December 11, 2020 Share Posted December 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Johnny Nix said: my sweatshirt was doing the same thing as a mask would It actually doesnt It's better than nothing but it isnt sufficient 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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