Who is the single best player in the 2020 draft?

[brownie man]

5 minutes ago, VanS said:

Progression would be if he improved from his freshmen to senior year.  Not jumping from a potential undrafted free agent after his redshirt junior year to the 1st overall pick as a 23 year old 5th year senior.

Please don't bring up Mahomes.  He has generational arm talent.  That is why he's so good despite not having full commamd of the game from a knowledge standpoint.  Guys with mediocre physical tools like Burrow won't have that liberty. 

Lmao does Brady have great tools? What about Brees? How about Matt Ryan? 
 

Go back and actually watch Burrow. I don’t think you’ve watched one game by the way your talking. 
 

go watch any game pick one your choice. He dominated 

Florida 

Alabama

Oklahoma

Clemson

Auburn

Texas

not one blemish

 

[VanS]

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Your hot takes are pretty hilarious.  

Bad athlete, power rusher with no bend, limited speed, non-explosive; thy name is Chase Young.  

Honestly, what are you even watching?

 

Beating overmatched college tackles don't impress me.  Nothing you posted shows elite get off or bend.  Like say Myles Garrett who I've seen the media compare Chase Young to.

And you can't get around the fact that the only metrics we have on Chase Young say he's a bad athlete.  His testing numbers from high school are what they are.  If he improved from those numbers I'm sure he would have shown it at the combine.  But the fact he avoided all testing at the combine should be a signal that he most likely hasn't improved much on those poor numbers.

I'll be honest this reminds me a lot of Derek Barnett in 2017.  He was getting a lot of love before that draft.  Some even suggeting he might be better than Myles Garrett because of his superior production.  I was one of the few on an island by myself saying he shouldn't even be a 1st round pick because of his poor athletic profile and physical tools.  I had Barnett rated more as a 2nd-3rd round talent.  I saw him as a try hard energy player moreso than a guy with the sort of talent to be elite in the NFL.  3 years into his career and he definitely looks nothing like a 1st round caliber defensive end. 

Chase Young has more raw talent than Barnett but I see similar short-comings in his NFL potential.  Right now all I see from Chase Young is a guy who was bigger and stronger than the college tackles he overwhelmed.  He won't have that physical advantage in the NFL.  The tackles in the league will be able to contain his not so freakish attributes better than the players he faced in college. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by VanS

[VanS]

6 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Because he had a broken hand and never caught up in the competition 

and why is everyone acting like Haskins didn’t just pass Drew Brees for Big 10 TD passing leader. Haskins was a bonafide first round pick and he earned that. 
 

lmao did you actually watch Burrow? This isn’t Sam Bradford. Joe Burrow legit the best QB prospect since Luck and honestly in my opinion he’s a better pure passer. 
 

Burrow would’ve been a starter if he wasn’t at OSU dude played in a spread offense at first that was built for JT Barrett. He got injured and just happened to not beat the guy who was Big 10 player of the freaking year. Then had to go to LSU transfer with a short offseason in the freaking SEC. 

He came out and lit up every team in his path. There’s nothing college football could do. You pass on Burrow if you want you’ll be the fool. 

FTR I never liked Haskins despite the stats he put up.  I saw a guy with a sloppy body and mediocre physical tools.  His body was a signal to me that he had a poor work ethic.  And given how quickly the Redskins seem to be trying to move on from him that may be a signal they weren't that impressed with his work ethic either.

I also don't know about the fit excuse.  Burrow is significantly more athletic than Haskins and yet Haskins excelled at Ohio State.  I'm sure if Burrow is the generational talent you make him out to be that he also could've made it work at Ohio State despite not being a pure running QB.

I'll stick with him being a one-year wonder over generational prospect.  

[VanS]

19 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Lmao does Brady have great tools? What about Brees? How about Matt Ryan? 
 

Go back and actually watch Burrow. I don’t think you’ve watched one game by the way your talking. 
 

go watch any game pick one your choice. He dominated 

Florida 

Alabama

Oklahoma

Clemson

Auburn

Texas

not one blemish

 

I watched him play against Alabama, Auburn, and Clemson.  Came away impressed with his athleticism (it was better than I thought) not so much when it came to his arm talent.  I saw more of a system passer who was finding guys open thanks to the playcalling and play design moreso than him making plays with his arm that weren't there initially.  From a physical standpoint he also looks smaller than he's listed.  

When I think of a 1st overall pick caliber QB, someone with Joe Burrow's physical profile simply doesn't come up.  Burrow has been elevated to the 1st overall pick based on his production.  And college stats are something I simply don't put much stock in.  I believe statistical production is just as much the result of who you have around as it is a signal for your actual ability.  And when who you have around you changes then that production will change.  However, a player's physical traits won't change as he moves from one level to the next.  That's why I'll always bank on elite tools over elite production when it comes to draft prospects. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by VanS

[brownie man]

45 minutes ago, VanS said:

I'll stick with him being a one-year wonder over generational prospect.  

and that'll be yo a$$ if you sleep on him 

[HTTRDynasty]

7 hours ago, VanS said:

Beating overmatched college tackles don't impress me.  Nothing you posted shows elite get off or bend.  Like say Myles Garrett who I've seen the media compare Chase Young to.

And you can't get around the fact that the only metrics we have on Chase Young say he's a bad athlete.  His testing numbers from high school are what they are.  If he improved from those numbers I'm sure he would have shown it at the combine.  But the fact he avoided all testing at the combine should be a signal that he most likely hasn't improved much on those poor numbers.

I'll be honest this reminds me a lot of Derek Barnett in 2017.  He was getting a lot of love before that draft.  Some even suggeting he might be better than Myles Garrett because of his superior production.  I was one of the few on an island by myself saying he shouldn't even be a 1st round pick because of his poor athletic profile and physical tools.  I had Barnett rated more as a 2nd-3rd round talent.  I saw him as a try hard energy player moreso than a guy with the sort of talent to be elite in the NFL.  3 years into his career and he definitely looks nothing like a 1st round caliber defensive end. 

Chase Young has more raw talent than Barnett but I see similar short-comings in his NFL potential.  Right now all I see from Chase Young is a guy who was bigger and stronger than the college tackles he overwhelmed.  He won't have that physical advantage in the NFL.  The tackles in the league will be able to contain his not so freakish attributes better than the players he faced in college. 

You’re blind if you don’t think he showed elite get-off in at least one of those gifs. 
 

Basically, your entire argument hinges on the fact that Young didn’t want to risk injury by performing at the combine, when he had nothing to gain from it. Ignoring the fact that he planned to do a pro day before those were cancelled. Lmao at your reaching. 
 

Myles Garrett ran a 5.08 40 in HS and had a worse overall SPARQ profile that Young btw. It’s foolish to believe Young didn’t significantly improve his time also.
 

Also, the Redskins are not “moving on” from Haskins. If that were the case, we’d be trying to trade for Cam Newton right now.  Even if he’s released, there’s no chance we sign him. 

[Scoundrel]

*Josh Dobbs has entered the thread 

[jrry32]

9 hours ago, VanS said:

And you can't get around the fact that the only metrics we have on Chase Young say he's a bad athlete.  His testing numbers from high school are what they are.  If he improved from those numbers I'm sure he would have shown it at the combine.  But the fact he avoided all testing at the combine should be a signal that he most likely hasn't improved much on those poor numbers.

[Mox]

7 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Imagine thinking someone peaked as an athlete in high school and that they didn't improve working out every day in college for three years.

[Awsi Dooger]

17 hours ago, VanS said:

Why do people keep saying this?  Nothing in his history says he's even a good athlete let alone being the most athletic player in this class.  His athletic testing in high school in the 40 and vertical were awful.  His tape doesn't really show freakish explosiveness either.  Most of his sacks come from power not speed.

There's a reason he didn't participate in the combine.  Its because he knew if people saw how unremarkable he was as an athlete it would destroy this ridiculous hype he's been getting.

Absolutely correct. More often than not the numbers would not improve decisively from high school. Outlier examples mean nothing. Chase Young avoided the tests because understands he succeeds with all the little details and not raw athletic ability. The gap in raw athletic ability and explosiveness was on full display when all of a sudden Baron Browning took Young's spot at left end deep into the Clemson game. Now you have a 4.56/37 guy across from the tackle instead of a 4.94/30 guy. And that poor right tackle wasn't prepared at all. It was a totally different world in terms of explosiveness, and a quick easy sack. 

Chase Young tries to time the snap count. That's what accounts for his quick start in some of those posted clips. It is not Cameron Wake type flash. It is like a 60 or 100 yard dash sprinter who has superior technique and instincts at the gun. Young guesses wrong occasionally and draws a flag.

Young's greatest strengths are the way he can contort and get narrow either around the corner or through evolving gaps to the inside. He also has a great feel for when the quarterback is stepping up in the pocket. Young quickly redirects and either collapses on top of the quarterback or shoves the tackle back into a pile. He has excellent wiry strength given his size.

The videos posted in the thread are a combo of guessing the snap count and then making himself narrow to finish. Yes, that is going to show up in the NFL. But Chase Young is considerably more of a monotone athlete than conventional wisdom prefers. He does not have awesome second and third steps around the corner. He is going to be a type who feasts on weak tackles who can't anticipate and counter his subtleties, and easy prey for superior tackles who can parry him like a skilled defensive boxer.

Also, the Bob McGinn scouting report on Young quoted a scout who astutely pointed out that Young doesn't use his hands at all, in contrast to the Bosas who are so superior with their hands. That was a great point that is seldom mentioned. Chase Young doesn't rip and propel himself in the new direction. He dekes and slithers in that direction. Whether it will fully succeed in the NFL will be interesting. It's certainly going to become a well known repertoire.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Awsi Dooger

[Chiefer]

13 hours ago, VanS said:

Progression would be if he improved from his freshmen to senior year.  Not jumping from a potential undrafted free agent after his redshirt junior year to the 1st overall pick as a 23 year old 5th year senior.

Please don't bring up Mahomes.  He has generational arm talent.  That is why he's so good despite not having full commamd of the game from a knowledge standpoint.  Guys with mediocre physical tools like Burrow won't have that liberty. 

No year-to-year is also progression. there’s plenty of examples of it throughout college history because their window for playing time can be quite limited. Especially Burrows because he only started a couple years at LSU.
 

I feel that if a player stagnates or reverses then that’s a problem. Growth in an offensive system, adding to his repertoire, seasoning, are all valid positives for a prospect. 
 

Taking advantage of your surroundings is never a bad thing, that kinda of thinking is why Mahomes went 10th overall despite the arm talent. 
 

I see your concerns though, I think he caps out as a better version of Baker Mayfield in the pros. 

[VanS]

10 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

You’re blind if you don’t think he showed elite get-off in at least one of those gifs. 
 

Basically, your entire argument hinges on the fact that Young didn’t want to risk injury by performing at the combine, when he had nothing to gain from it. Ignoring the fact that he planned to do a pro day before those were cancelled. Lmao at your reaching. 
 

Myles Garrett ran a 5.08 40 in HS and had a worse overall SPARQ profile that Young btw. It’s foolish to believe Young didn’t significantly improve his time also.
 

Also, the Redskins are not “moving on” from Haskins. If that were the case, we’d be trying to trade for Cam Newton right now.  Even if he’s released, there’s no chance we sign him. 

Myles Garrett showed he improved his athleticism from high school to the pros when he lit up the combine.  We have no evidence that Chase Young's athleticism has improved since high school.  There are just as many guys whose testing numbers from the Opening stayed the same at the combine than those who improved so there's no guarantee Chase Young made a Myles Garrett-esque leap.

[VanS]

7 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

Imagine thinking someone peaked as an athlete in high school and that they didn't improve working out every day in college for three years.

Alvin Kamara's numbers at the Opening were very similair to what he put up at the combine.  Same with Landon Collins.

Some guys don't change much athletically from 18 to 22 years old.

[Mox]

12 hours ago, VanS said:

Alvin Kamara's numbers at the Opening were very similair to what he put up at the combine.  Same with Landon Collins.

Some guys don't change much athletically from 18 to 22 years old.

One example does not make it commonplace. It's a lot more common for players to develop athletically going through 3 or 4 years of high level training than to stagnate at 18.

[VanS]

2 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

One example does not make it commonplace. It's a lot more common for players to develop athletically going through 3 or 4 years of high level training than to stagnate at 18.

Not exactly.  Nowdays a lot of athletes are training year round in high school in their particular sport.  You're talking about the old days when kids played multiple sports and weren't just focusing on one sport.  One of the reasons there are so many 5-star busts when it comes to high school rankings is guys already tapping out on their athletic potential by the time they reach high school.

I'm not saying its impossible Chase Young hasn't improved athletically.  Just saying its not as common as you make it out.  If he wasn't a 5-star recruit coming out but instead a 3-star I might be more inclined to think he had improved.