2020 NFL Draft

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

I'll give Quinn credit: in rounds 3 and 4 this year, he did exactly what I feel good GMs do. He didn't think Jonah Jackson would last until pick #85, so he tossed a 5th to move up and get him. Then, in the 4th round, he felt he could get his guy a bit later, so he moved down and got a 5th round pick back. That's smart GM stuff.

I just don't understand why, if you've got three guys graded similarly at a premium draft pick, you don't move down a bit and add precious draft value. I haven't given up on him or anything... I just believe that the good GMs have that mentality.

[Karnage84]

26 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said:

I agree on the off-season as a whole.  I am not overly excited but I liked the draft.  

However, I am not saying that he needs to absolutely trade picks to get the most guys, but if you do hold onto your picks, you need to shoot for the stars.  Drafting Decker was ok, he has been a league average LT for us.  I think Ragnow has been a good pick but he again was forced to pick a C high because of need and lack of free agent attention.  Maybe Ragnow was the right pick, but I find it hard to believe that Ragnow and Tavai were BPA, and not just trying to force a player to fill a hole.  Its the same concept that landed us Ebron over Donald or OBJ.  Even with Okudah, who happened to be BPA, it was to fill a need.  I think he just got lucky and a need was met with BPA.  However I dont think anyone would have been too upset had we moved down to 7 and grabbed Simmons/Brown and had an extra 2nd and 3rd to play with. And it doesnt have to be every pick, but at some point, use your draft capital to make more.  Thats what has kept the Patriots on top, they trade their first for multiple 2nd/3rds every year.  Adding two chances for an impact player instead of one helps your odds and if the other turns out to be just ok, then its still a great move.  

We can't be holding Quinn accountable for Mayhew's mistakes when we're talking Ebron over Donald. Mayhew played his cards wrong when it came to re-signing Suh. 

Decker: Reiff was in line for a contract extension or let walk in FA. Played well enough in 2015 at LT. We needed someone to play RT after a revolving door at the position. Decker was Quinn planning ahead for Reiff to possibly leave in FA and to avoid being forced to overpay him.

RR (PFF Grades for 2017 - 64.8; 2018 - 74.1; 2019 - 71.1). Wagner 2017 - 75.2; 2018 - 71.4; 2019 - 59.0). Reiff still has a cap hit of $13M this year and he's playing at LT. 

Ragnow: We just came away from a season with Swanson at C with a 57.0 grade. I wasn't checking out PFF at the time but we all knew that it was a bad spot. Glasgow performed well enough in that spot but we needed to add another piece to the OL. Ragnow has turned out to be a very good player (I believe he has even been ranked top at the position) and they were trying to protect Stafford. 

Since Patricia came in for the 2018 season, the roster has been in the process of being overhauled. Quinn was drafting players that suited Caldwell and his systems. Patricia and Quinn have their own preferences on guys for their system.The Patriots can afford to make mistakes on guys because they have success and that success has led to them being able to attract FA's. They've also been really good at getting busted players buy in or get rid of non-fits quickly. Bellichick isn't going anywhere while Quinn and Patricia can follow a plan but they're on much more limited time. 

[Nnivolcm]

7 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

 

I just don't understand why, if you've got three guys graded similarly at a premium draft pick, you don't move down a bit and add precious draft value. I haven't given up on him or anything... I just believe that the good GMs have that mentality.

Yes you have.  

On 4/23/2020 at 7:01 PM, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I'm officially anti-Quinn. He's weak. Spineless. He had a golden opportunity to rake in elite value here but let the Dolphins work him.

Screw Quinn.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 minute ago, Nnivolcm said:

Yes you have.  

Haha. Darn sadness-fueled posts.

[detroitroar]

13 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

I'll give Quinn credit: in rounds 3 and 4 this year, he did exactly what I feel good GMs do. He didn't think Jonah Jackson would last until pick #85, so he tossed a 5th to move up and get him. Then, in the 4th round, he felt he could get his guy a bit later, so he moved down and got a 5th round pick back. That's smart GM stuff.

I just don't understand why, if you've got three guys graded similarly at a premium draft pick, you don't move down a bit and add precious draft value. I haven't given up on him or anything... I just believe that the good GMs have that mentality.

What trade should we of done?

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, detroitroar said:

What trade should we of done?

Well, based on Quinn's admission that he had Swift, Taylor and Dobbins graded similarly, I feel that, instead of spending a premium pick on one of them, he should've moved down from that pick and added another valuable resource. (For example: the Browns moved down from #41 to #44 and added a 5th round pick.)

[detroitroar]

16 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Well, based on Quinn's admission that he had Swift, Taylor and Dobbins graded similarly, I feel that, instead of spending a premium pick on one of them, he should've moved down from that pick and added another valuable resource. (For example: the Browns moved down from #41 to #44 and added a 5th round pick.)

I mean, I get it and I myself am disappointed we didnt trade in the 1st but we don't really know what was going on in the 2nd. I just think it's hard to hold that against him with very little info.

[Karnage84]

I don't understand how we can be upset with Bob Quinn for drafting arguably two of the best players (if not THE best) at key positions for us. I would have been just as happy if we could get these same players with a trade down but we don't know what was available. If Swift was the highest rated RB by Quinn (likely was and by other several outside sources), why would you give him up for a 5th if you have several picks already. The Lions came into the draft with picks in every round including two 3rd's, two 5th's and a 7th. 

 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

1 hour ago, detroitroar said:

I mean, I get it and I myself am disappointed we didnt trade in the 1st but we don't really know what was going on in the 2nd. I just think it's hard to hold that against him with very little info.

Yeah, definitely. I'm not saying that I think it's a big deal, or that he was absolutely wrong for not trading down, but his statement seems to imply that he was in a position to extract more value from the draft.

Things we know:

1. Swift, Taylor and Dobbins were all available with pick #35.
2. Quinn graded these players similarly.
3. Pick #35 has significant value.

Had Quinn just said "Yeah, Swift is the best fit for this team, we love his skillset, etc.", I'd have no questions. And, really, I like his honesty. It's just a prime situation to move down and still get a player at that position that you grade similarly.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

3 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I don't understand how we can be upset with Bob Quinn for drafting arguably two of the best players (if not THE best) at key positions for us. I would have been just as happy if we could get these same players with a trade down but we don't know what was available. If Swift was the highest rated RB by Quinn (likely was and by other several outside sources), why would you give him up for a 5th if you have several picks already. The Lions came into the draft with picks in every round including two 3rd's, two 5th's and a 7th. 

 

Not upset by any means. Just discussing the draft.

[Karnage84]

1 minute ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Yeah, definitely. I'm not saying that I think it's a big deal, or that he was absolutely wrong for not trading down, but his statement seems to imply that he was in a position to extract more value from the draft.

Things we know:

1. Swift, Taylor and Dobbins were all available with pick #35.
2. Quinn graded these players similarly.
3. Pick #35 has significant value.

Had Quinn just said "Yeah, Swift is the best fit for this team, we love his skillset, etc.", I'd have no questions. And, really, I like his honesty. It's just a prime situation to move down and still get a player at that position that you grade similarly.

Similar grades don't always mean similar skillsets/problems addressed. Taylor could be graded higher as a runner while Swift could be graded higher as a receiver with both guys falling into a similar grade range. If you need or want a guy who is more of a receiving threat, then you're going to lean towards Swift despite having Taylor graded similarly. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

Why does one have to be upset with Quinn to discuss decisions made during the draft? Don't we do this exact same thing to other members of the team throughout the season?

[diehardlionfan]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Why does one have to be upset with Quinn to discuss decisions made during the draft? Don't we do this exact same thing to other members of the team throughout the season?

I believe one can support Quinn without being satisfied with every decision. It’s sort of what we do here is dissect decisions by all members of the organization.

Reciprocally I’m not a Quinn Patricia fan but love this draft. 

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

2 hours ago, Karnage84 said:

Similar grades don't always mean similar skillsets/problems addressed. Taylor could be graded higher as a runner while Swift could be graded higher as a receiver with both guys falling into a similar grade range. If you need or want a guy who is more of a receiving threat, then you're going to lean towards Swift despite having Taylor graded similarly. 

Well, sure, but we don't really know any of that. All we know is that Quinn had them graded similarly. If that was Quinn's justification, it would've been great to hear him say it.

If, hypothetically, he just had them graded similarly, and he didn't want to move down for fear of missing out on all three of them: so be it. My opinion is that it's a conservative move, and the great GMs feel comfortable taking that calculated risk.

[Karnage84]

22 minutes ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Well, sure, but we don't really know any of that. All we know is that Quinn had them graded similarly. If that was Quinn's justification, it would've been great to hear him say it.

If, hypothetically, he just had them graded similarly, and he didn't want to move down for fear of missing out on all three of them: so be it. My opinion is that it's a conservative move, and the great GMs feel comfortable taking that calculated risk.

You could be right. This is where the whole ultimatum can peak its head into things. Quinn has to make high percentage picks as he doesn't have the luxury of taking a gamble and having it not work out.

Sometimes being conservative isn't a bad thing. If you look at the financial markets right now, someone that was considered a genius 3 months ago while being overly aggressive and getting double digit returns has now lost their shirt with a loss of 30 - 40% of their overall portfolio in a very short period of time.