How many WR1's are in the NFL? And how important is it?

[BayRaider]

Randy Moss is one example of many. Moss was not great at a lot of things. Certainly everything Thomas does, Moss is pretty average to below average at doing. He also was never the best short/medium route runner despite people trying to argue he was. He certainly wasn’t bad it, but still. 
 

So was Randy Moss not the best WR in the NFL from 1998-2004 (least 3 of these years for sure) and in 2007? 

[tyler735]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

No, you don’t. This is purely your opinion. 
 

Thomas can’t be shut down and is a 3rd down converter monster. The best security blanket I’ve ever seen. 

This is the equivalent of saying guys like Brady/Manning can't be the best QB in NFL history because they didn't do everything as they weren't athletic like a Russell Wilson/Lamar Jackson. At the end of the day all that matters is results, and Michael Thomas has been getting those as good or better than just every if not every WR the past couple years. If it was so easy for a guy like Thomas to absolutely dominate the short/intermediate game like he does despite having 4.5 40 speed, why don't other top WR's do it as effectively? 

[BayRaider]

1 minute ago, tyler735 said:

This is the equivalent of saying guys like Brady/Manning can't be the best QB in NFL history because they didn't do everything as they weren't athletic like a Russell Wilson/Lamar Jackson. At the end of the day all that matters is results, and Michael Thomas has been getting those as good or better than just every if not every WR the past couple years. If it was so easy for a guy like Thomas to absolutely dominate the short/intermediate game like he does despite having 4.5 40 speed, why don't other top WR's do it as effectively? 

Great comparison. 

[Bearerofnews]

1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Fair, very fair. But Thomas is ahead of them, no? So... CTS-V?

Thomas is tough to breakdown. I feel what Scar is saying about him. Though he is underrating him calling him Sanu. To me Thomas is a volume beast. I might be short changing him but i dont recall seeing him make tough catches or even being very elusive. He just has great hands, great ability to box out defenders and out physical everyone.

I prolly would put him slightly over Allen and Evans.

Id put Hopkins, Julio, Thomas, Odell over Evans and Allen. Outside of that, there is guys like Amari and Tyreek who might have cases. So i think Allen and Evans are at worst top 8. I think at worst Thomas is top 4. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Bearerofnews

[m haynes]

5 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said:

You also don't need to draft a QB in the 1st 4 rds if you look at the Patriots. 

Also you shouldn't have one of the highest paid QBs in the lg. I believe the last QB who won the SB and was top 5 in pay at QB was Rodgers like 10 years ago. 

There are many QB that would of had success with the Patriots using the same formula, great OL and good WRs. The Patriots never wasted money on (#1)WRs. They used the money in other areas such as defense and special teams.   IMO that a winning formula.

Again  The Browns went big time WRs and they were unsuccessful, just like many other  teams. You have a young QB and the best way for him to have success is to protect him with a dominate OL.  They had many asset they wasted on other areas.

I sure Baker Mayfield would of played a lot better using the Pats formula.

[scar988]

6 minutes ago, m haynes said:

There are many QB that would of had success with the Patriots using the same formula, great OL and good WRs. The Patriots never wasted money on (#1)WRs. They used the money in other areas such as defense and special teams.   IMO that a winning formula.

Again  The Browns went big time WRs and they were unsuccessful, just like many other  teams. You have a young QB and the best way for him to have success is to protect him with a dominate OL.  They had many asset they wasted on other areas.

I sure Baker Mayfield would of played a lot better using the Pats formula.

Never wasted money on WR1? Did I miss the Randy Moss years?

[m haynes]

6 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Ok, if the Cardinals draft Lamb at 8, terrible or great idea?

Terrible if they don't have a dominate LT.

Will they win games yes until they face a good team with a pass rush. They definitely lose in the playoffs.  Now if they took LT and drafted a 2nd round WR the would be much better off. EX Debo Samuals and AJ Brown were 2nd RD picks.

PS This draft is one of the best WR class ever. I read 25 WRs have 1st and 2nd rd grades.

WR  That are projected 2nd RD talent.  Here are just 6 out to the 25.

Justin Jefferson WR, LSU, Denzel Mims WR, Baylor, Tee Higgins WR, Clemson,  Jalen Reagor WR, TCU, Laviska Shenault Jr. WR, Colorado, K.J. Hamler WR, Penn State

Edited March 27, 2020 by m haynes

[tyler735]

49 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

Thomas is tough to breakdown. I feel what Scar is saying about him. Though he is underrating him calling him Sanu. To me Thomas is a volume beast. I might be short changing him but i dont recall seeing him make tough catches or even being very elusive. He just has great hands, great ability to box out defenders and out physical everyone.

I prolly would put him slightly over Allen and Evans.

Id put Hopkins, Julio, Thomas, Odell over Evans and Allen. Outside of that, there is guys like Amari and Tyreek who might have cases. So i think Allen and Evans are at worst top 8. I think at worst Thomas is top 4. 

He has shown the ability to make some pretty impressive catches with his combo of excellent hands and body control.

Edited March 27, 2020 by tyler735

[Bearerofnews]

3 hours ago, tyler735 said:

He has shown the ability to make some pretty impressive catches with his combo of excellent hands and body control.

Touche... i guess it shows i dont watch Thomas quite enough to give him the credit he deserves. Those were all very impressive catches.

[Dome]

On 3/23/2020 at 8:01 AM, HoboRocket said:

Alright. I'm one of this site's biggest Super Cooper Kupp supporters.

I really like Kupp too, I don’t think he’s a guy that will thrive in a #1 spot. IMO he is a guy that kills people when they forget about him and he’s really freaking good about it. Rams are doing right by him using him the way they do.

You think you’ve got an answer for Woods and Cooks while keeping tabs on Gurley, just in case. Next thing you know Kupp is stiff arming your 5th best CB into oblivion.

[m haynes]

19 hours ago, scar988 said:

Never wasted money on WR1? Did I miss the Randy Moss years?

They got him for a 4th round pick.  They didn't pay him crazy money.   That's what I have been saying.  Don't waste your resources on a WR.  Another example. Dion Branch Patriots, killing it at the WR wants big money contract.  BB  FU! Traded.  Also Branden Cook big money, traded.

Edited March 28, 2020 by m haynes

[Zalixar]

On 3/27/2020 at 2:07 PM, m haynes said:

Terrible if they don't have a dominate LT.

Will they win games yes until they face a good team with a pass rush. They definitely lose in the playoffs.  Now if they took LT and drafted a 2nd round WR the would be much better off. EX Debo Samuals and AJ Brown were 2nd RD picks.

PS This draft is one of the best WR class ever. I read 25 WRs have 1st and 2nd rd grades.

WR  That are projected 2nd RD talent.  Here are just 6 out to the 25.

Justin Jefferson WR, LSU, Denzel Mims WR, Baylor, Tee Higgins WR, Clemson,  Jalen Reagor WR, TCU, Laviska Shenault Jr. WR, Colorado, K.J. Hamler WR, Penn State

Other than the main argument that there are so many WR out there, just wait until round 2.

This could also be used as an argument to take the top tier WR in this class (Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs).

If this draft is so talented and these are the cream of the crop, wouldn't this be the best time to take the cream of the cream of the crop?

Other years there's just top rated WR within the draft class, but doesn't mean they would be good in comparing to other draft classes.

Good WR that get separation can help a QB just as well.

What does a defense do when a #2 or #3 WR could be a 1/2, now face the 2/3 CB or linebacker.

[m haynes]

3 hours ago, Zalixar said:

Other than the main argument that there are so many WR out there, just wait until round 2.

This could also be used as an argument to take the top tier WR in this class (Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs).

If this draft is so talented and these are the cream of the crop, wouldn't this be the best time to take the cream of the cream of the crop?

Other years there's just top rated WR within the draft class, but doesn't mean they would be good in comparing to other draft classes.

Good WR that get separation can help a QB just as well.

What does a defense do when a #2 or #3 WR could be a 1/2, now face the 2/3 CB or linebacker.

Greatest WRs do you no good when your QB is under pressure or flat on his back.  IMO you win in the trenches.

Edited March 29, 2020 by m haynes

[HoboRocket]

On 3/27/2020 at 5:07 PM, m haynes said:

Terrible if they don't have a dominate LT.

Will they win games yes until they face a good team with a pass rush. They definitely lose in the playoffs.  Now if they took LT and drafted a 2nd round WR the would be much better off. EX Debo Samuals and AJ Brown were 2nd RD picks.

PS This draft is one of the best WR class ever. I read 25 WRs have 1st and 2nd rd grades.

WR  That are projected 2nd RD talent.  Here are just 6 out to the 25.

Justin Jefferson WR, LSU, Denzel Mims WR, Baylor, Tee Higgins WR, Clemson,  Jalen Reagor WR, TCU, Laviska Shenault Jr. WR, Colorado, K.J. Hamler WR, Penn State

DJ Humphries has been a dominant LT whenever he's been healthy. The issues with him were that he's been hurt, and before that when he was actually bad, it was because he was playing RT. Bruce Arians straight up said that his issue was that he couldn't adapt to the right side. That's why he was in BA's dog house. He'd turn to the left and create lanes for the DL when he was playing at right tackle. 

He's been very good whenever he's been playing left tackle. He's missed some games though. The main issue with the Cards line is that they've been decimated by injuries for years. Since at least 2016 they've played more than half of the season without multiple starters. Guys like Humphries, Mike Iupati, AQ Shipley, Marcus Gilbert, Jared Veldheer, and Justin Pugh have all missed significant portions of the season while with the Cardinals. None of those guys were really BAD until age or injuries. But the Cardinals offensive line has been awful because everyone keeps getting hurt. And now, most of those guys have moved on to other teams. OT/G IS a need, but Marcus Gilbert and DJ Humphries are both quality starter. They need a back-up RT who might need to play this season, and/or a new right guard. They could easily get that in round 2.

Yes, this WR class is extremely deep and possibly the best I've ever seen, but the OT class is also incredibly deep. There are 17 tackles with first or second round grades. If I'm the Cardinals right now, I have three players circled on paper: Derrick Brown, Isaiah Simmons, and Jeff Okudah. If any of them slide (yes, I know it's highly unlikely that Simmons or Okudah are there), then the Cardinals should scoop them up and grab OT and WR in rounds 3 and 4. They could get quality guys at those spots. 

[m haynes]

3 hours ago, HoboRocket said:

DJ Humphries has been a dominant LT whenever he's been healthy. The issues with him were that he's been hurt, and before that when he was actually bad, it was because he was playing RT. Bruce Arians straight up said that his issue was that he couldn't adapt to the right side. That's why he was in BA's dog house. He'd turn to the left and create lanes for the DL when he was playing at right tackle. 

He's been very good whenever he's been playing left tackle. He's missed some games though. The main issue with the Cards line is that they've been decimated by injuries for years. Since at least 2016 they've played more than half of the season without multiple starters. Guys like Humphries, Mike Iupati, AQ Shipley, Marcus Gilbert, Jared Veldheer, and Justin Pugh have all missed significant portions of the season while with the Cardinals. None of those guys were really BAD until age or injuries. But the Cardinals offensive line has been awful because everyone keeps getting hurt. And now, most of those guys have moved on to other teams. OT/G IS a need, but Marcus Gilbert and DJ Humphries are both quality starter. They need a back-up RT who might need to play this season, and/or a new right guard. They could easily get that in round 2.

Yes, this WR class is extremely deep and possibly the best I've ever seen, but the OT class is also incredibly deep. There are 17 tackles with first or second round grades. If I'm the Cardinals right now, I have three players circled on paper: Derrick Brown, Isaiah Simmons, and Jeff Okudah. If any of them slide (yes, I know it's highly unlikely that Simmons or Okudah are there), then the Cardinals should scoop them up and grab OT and WR in rounds 3 and 4. They could get quality guys at those spots. 

You missed to point. If you have a dominant LT your all set. This topic at least to me was do you take a tackle over WR. Tackle and I as well  as your QB have a great nights sleep!