Archimedes Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said: And that's part of the problem right there. QBR puts too emphasis on whether the starting QB comes away with a win or loss. As if it's like the NBA where a single player can make a profound difference. You can't do that with a QB without context because the NFL is MUCH MORE team based. Mitch Trubisky had the highest QBR in 2018 when we won 12 games. Do you think he was the best QB in that year? QBR is basically EPA/play. Yes there’s a little extra stuff in there but it’s not based around wins/losses. And Mitch Trubisky didn’t have the highest QBR in 2018, Mahomes did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 21 minutes ago, Archimedes said: QBR is basically EPA/play. Yes there’s a little extra stuff in there but it’s not based around wins/losses. And Mitch Trubisky didn’t have the highest QBR in 2018, Mahomes did. EPA is much more useful in terms of team/offense/defense, not on an individual player basis. And his point still sort of stands - Trubisky wasn’t one (or tied for one, like Mahomes) but he was fourth. Was he the fourth best QB one season ago? Ahead of Brady, Luck, Wilson, Rodgers, Wentz, Goff, Watson, Dak, and Ryan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 18 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: EPA is much more useful in terms of team/offense/defense, not on an individual player basis. And his point still sort of stands - Trubisky wasn’t one (or tied for one, like Mahomes) but he was fourth. Was he the fourth best QB one season ago? Ahead of Brady, Luck, Wilson, Rodgers, Wentz, Goff, Watson, Dak, and Ryan? No he wasn’t and that why you don’t use the stat alone. You use it in conjunction with ANY/A and passer rating and it more or less gives you an accurate gauge of how that QB performed in that given season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 36 minutes ago, Archimedes said: No he wasn’t and that why you don’t use the stat alone. You use it in conjunction with ANY/A and passer rating and it more or less gives you an accurate gauge of how that QB performed in that given season. Ryan Fitzpatrick beat Brady in 2/3 of those categories. Rodgers in 3/3. Dak in 3/3. Smaller sample size, but still 2-5 as a starter that year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Ryan Fitzpatrick beat Brady in 2/3 of those categories. Rodgers in 3/3. Dak in 3/3. Smaller sample size, but still 2-5 as a starter that year. Ok, so that would be called an outlier. Those are going to exist in MOST statistical comparisons regarding sports. That, plus as you said, too small of sample size. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YogiBiz Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 On 3/24/2020 at 4:14 PM, HoboRocket said: Overall, dang. Jimmy G was kind of an elite QB. I thought he was more of an Alex Smith, Derek Carr, or Andy Dalton-type game manager this past year. He wasn't. How come Derek Carr is lumped into this category? I am no Raiders fan, but the guy gets unfairly dumped on. Like every chance someone get, Derek Carr is disrespected. There shouldn't be any reason why he's lumped together with this guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 All stats should be taken with context. The better a team is, the easier it is for the QB to be efficient. But then a better QB will make the team better, as they have the largest impact an individual can have on team success. Defense can help or hurt the QB and vice versa. Same with oline, receiver, coach or anything else. It’s all context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted April 3, 2020 Share Posted April 3, 2020 QBR heavly grades qbs for running plays. It's a stupid stat and objective. I perfer formula based stats over viewer-based perceptive stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 4, 2020 Share Posted April 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Bearerofnews said: QBR heavly grades qbs for running plays. It's a stupid stat and objective. I perfer formula based stats over viewer-based perceptive stats. Ehh. QBR has the second highest correlation to winning out of any stat in the NFL. So its clearly doing something right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archimedes Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 On 4/3/2020 at 6:46 PM, Bearerofnews said: QBR heavly grades qbs for running plays. It's a stupid stat and objective. I perfer formula based stats over viewer-based perceptive stats. No, it doesn’t “heavily grade” for running plays. It’s like 90% based around EPA. And as Matts4313 stated, it’s highly correlated with winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 (edited) On 4/3/2020 at 6:21 PM, Matts4313 said: Ehh. QBR has the second highest correlation to winning out of any stat in the NFL. So its clearly doing something right. Because its an objective manual grading stat. There is no appliable stable formula. Edited April 6, 2020 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 37 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: Because its an objective manual grading stat. There is no appliable stable formula. I mean, you have no clue how its done because ESPN has never released the formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Matts4313 said: I mean, you have no clue how its done because ESPN has never released the formula. But they actually have.. http://es.pn/2d7esV4 Or https://es.pn/2c8tSq0 I will never be convinced QBR is a remotely accurate or good stat. I will also never give it any credence to holding value. It's results throughout the years have justified it being the most inaccurate stat in football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Bearerofnews said: But they actually have.. http://es.pn/2d7esV4 Or https://es.pn/2c8tSq0 I will never be convinced QBR is a remotely accurate or good stat. I will also never give it any credence to holding value. It's results throughout the years have justified it being the most inaccurate stat in football. Literally neither one of those give you a formula. Soooooo........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Matts4313 said: Literally neither one of those give you a formula. Soooooo........ Well that's the problem. There really isnt a formula. Its all subjective. It's grading based off what they watch and accrediting different scales of value to different aspects. Its much like PFF's grading. But unlike QBR, PFF grading more routinely correlates to what the mass sees when watching the qbs play. QBR, really doesnt. It's a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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