Bears sign OL Germain Ifedi

[WindyCity]

10 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

How much do you really expect a rookie OL, even one taken in round 2, to contribute coming into a season with little to no offseason? At most these guys are getting training camp to acclimate before games that matter start. Even the plug and play OTs about to be taken in the top 10 are going to face more struggles to adjust than in any other year.

More than any other season I think we are drafting for future OL replacements rather than immediate ones, even if immediate ones are what we really need. It’s just not realistic to think they’ll be ready to contribute early on because of the circumstances unique to 2020. Given as much I think the likelihood we invest highly in guys who aren’t helping in 2020 is low because of the win-or-else factors potentially at play for those making the decisions. 

It would depend on the guy. But you have to have guys competing and developing. Even if the rookie takes over week 8, an upgrade is an upgrade.

All positions we draft are going to have the same issues with offseason and reps.

But you start the process now. Otherwise if Ifedi is mediocre you don’t really have an option. God, if Leno gets hurt, phone in the season.

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

It would depend on the guy. But you have to have guys competing and developing. Even if the rookie takes over week 8, an upgrade is an upgrade.

All positions we draft are going to have the same issues with offseason and reps.

But you start the process now. Otherwise if Ifedi is mediocre you don’t really have an option. God, if Leno gets hurt, phone in the season.

At least you’re not being dramatic about it.

My point is, if you’re talking about guys who aren’t realistically going to be viable options until midseason or later then that puts round 4-5 guys on similar footing to those in round 2 in terms of their potential year 1 impact more so than normal, especially when you’re talking about IOL who tend to transition more readily than OT anyway. IOL is the most immediate need. Any OT add is almost surely a 2020 swing tackle and 2021 starting candidate. Developing players are developing players, and the upside of guards in the middle rounds isn’t any different longer term than those we could be looking at in round 2. We aren’t drafting in the range of the Quentin Nelson or even David DeCastro level prospects. 

I’m pretty sure we agree we need to add a prospect at both OG and OT in this draft. Since none of them are likely seeing the field out of the gate due to the lack of any offseason program I’m 100% fine with both those adds coming after round 2. I’m also expecting that barring a bounce back from Leno in 2020 that we’re signing or drafting his eventual replacement next offseason when the coffers should be far more equipped with funds or draft assets to do so. 

I really think that the familiarity Castillo has with all the Michigan guys is going to be a big factor in who we add as those depth/development guys this year more than most because he’s already going to know those guys’ strengths and weaknesses. That’s Ruiz, Bredeson and Runyan. Ruiz is pretty unlikely to make it to 43 but each of the other two will almost surely be available on day 3. I like both Bredeson and Runyan for us, and frankly would be ok drafting both if they think Runyan can transition at RT instead of kicking inside. 

[soulman]

15 hours ago, G08 said:

Is it better to draft an OG at #43 or if someone like Josh Jones falls, do you draft him and kick him inside to OG this season and perhaps out to RT in 2021?

Good question.  Wish I had the right answer.

If Pace decides to draft an OL in round two my preference would be to draft one whose as NFL ready now as possible.  However, that may not be Pace's plan now and he may feel RG can be covered by Ifedi and he also has Bars and Coward but who've now seen some game action.  I think a guy like Cesar Ruiz might be ideal or Lloyd Cushenberry because they have that same OG/OC versatility as Daniels and Whitehair. I would take either over Jones but I'm not Ryan Pace and he does things differently.

If eventually replacing Massie with Jones is the objective apparently we could find a better prospect since his scouting report compares him most favorably with Massie.  Kind of ironic eh?  But that report also suggests Jones is not currently NFL ready and may need some significant work on his technique.  But since he's also had significant experience playing LT and seems to have the physical traits of one as well maybe he's a guy we'd want to develop for either OT spot and it appears he could also play OG for now.

 

By Lance Zierlein

NFL Analyst

 

NFL Comparison

Bobby Massie

 

Overview

Early tape would suggest that Jones is a raw, developmental project in need of substantial technique work, but tape study later in the season suggests a level of improvement that creates additional intrigue for the long, athletic left tackle prospect. To be clear, he needs plenty of work with his pass sets and footwork, but most of his issues appear to be coachable. He's a good fit for a move-oriented rushing attack and has the traits and talent to become a future starter if he continues to develop with coaching.

[soulman]

14 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Good options. Not a RT bust, against a guy who was bad last year against a guy who couldn’t beat out the bad player last year.

We should draft a serious option on the interior line and an OT to develop.

Just because YOU don't like those options yourself doesn't necessarily mean they aren't viable options.

You've even admitted that Ifedi may turn out to be a far better player at OG than he was at OT.

Then you have Coward who is a converted DL who was moved to an unfamiliar positions out of raw need while still being developed as an OL and an UDFA whose shown promise but is also very raw.  Both may be significantly improved in 2021.

I'm not gonna debate whether or not we need to draft an OL.  I believe we do.  My response was only to your posting we had no options or Pace has not provided options.  That simply not true.  You just don't like the options we do have.  There is a difference.

[WindyCity]

13 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

At least you’re not being dramatic about it.

My point is, if you’re talking about guys who aren’t realistically going to be viable options until midseason or later then that puts round 4-5 guys on similar footing to those in round 2 in terms of their potential year 1 impact more so than normal, especially when you’re talking about IOL who tend to transition more readily than OT anyway. IOL is the most immediate need. Any OT add is almost surely a 2020 swing tackle and 2021 starting candidate. Developing players are developing players, and the upside of guards in the middle rounds isn’t any different longer term than those we could be looking at in round 2. We aren’t drafting in the range of the Quentin Nelson or even David DeCastro level prospects. 

I’m pretty sure we agree we need to add a prospect at both OG and OT in this draft. Since none of them are likely seeing the field out of the gate due to the lack of any offseason program I’m 100% fine with both those adds coming after round 2. I’m also expecting that barring a bounce back from Leno in 2020 that we’re signing or drafting his eventual replacement next offseason when the coffers should be far more equipped with funds or draft assets to do so. 

I really think that the familiarity Castillo has with all the Michigan guys is going to be a big factor in who we add as those depth/development guys this year more than most because he’s already going to know those guys’ strengths and weaknesses. That’s Ruiz, Bredeson and Runyan. Ruiz is pretty unlikely to make it to 43 but each of the other two will almost surely be available on day 3. I like both Bredeson and Runyan for us, and frankly would be ok drafting both if they think Runyan can transition at RT instead of kicking inside. 

You could say that about any position we draft in round 2.

OLmen will have a more immediate chance to get on the field than a WR, it took Miller 1.5 years to learn the system well enough that he wasn’t getting called out by coaches.

You draft OL early and you see what happens. I would not be shocked if our starting RG week 1 was a rookie.

[WindyCity]

3 minutes ago, soulman said:

Just because YOU don't like those options yourself doesn't necessarily mean they aren't viable options.

You've even admitted that Ifedi may turn out to be a far better player at OG than he was at OT.

Then you have Coward who is a converted DL who was moved to an unfamiliar positions out of raw need while still being developed as an OL and an UDFA whose shown promise but is also very raw.  Both may be significantly improved in 2021.

I'm not gonna debate whether or not we need to draft an OL.  I believe we do.  My response was only to your posting we had no options or Pace has not provided options.  That simply not true.  You just don't like the options we do have.  There is a difference.

Those are not quality options. When you have to put 3-4 qualifiers on them that means that they aren’t that good.

Coward was bad. I say that as someone who saw something in him.

Bars couldn’t get any reps despite how bad things were on the line, that is a major concern.

Ifedi needs to switch positions and learn an entirely new system. He has spent the last 2 years in a power system and that seems to be what we are moving away from.

[beardown3231]

1 minute ago, WindyCity said:

Those are not quality options. When you have to put 3-4 qualifiers on them that means that they aren’t that good.

Coward was bad. I say that as someone who saw something in him.

Bars couldn’t get any reps despite how bad things were on the line, that is a major concern.

Ifedi needs to switch positions and learn an entirely new system. He has spent the last 2 years in a power system and that seems to be what we are moving away from.

Bars is the new Freddie Barnes, Garrett Wolfe, Dane Sanzenbacher, Mike Hass.

It's possible he could be good, but it's also entirely possible that he never will be. 

[WindyCity]

22 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Bars is the new Freddie Barnes, Garrett Wolfe, Dane Sanzenbacher, Mike Hass.

It's possible he could be good, but it's also entirely possible that he never will be. 

Having a helmet and a pulse does not make you a legitimate option to start and contribute.

We need more talent. Not just random late round picks and UDFAs. The best lines in the league are not built that way.

[beardown3231]

47 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Having a helmet and a pulse does not make you a legitimate option to start and contribute.

We need more talent. Not just random late round picks and UDFAs. The best lines in the league are not built that way.

Preach

[soulman]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Those are not quality options. When you have to put 3-4 qualifiers on them that means that they aren’t that good.

Coward was bad. I say that as someone who saw something in him.

Bars couldn’t get any reps despite how bad things were on the line, that is a major concern.

Ifedi needs to switch positions and learn an entirely new system. He has spent the last 2 years in a power system and that seems to be what we are moving away from.

"Quality Options" was never mentioned in the post I responded to.  Only "Options".  Besides how you view them is your personal opinion and one that Pace, Nagy and Castillo may not share nor other members here.

In fact everything you post here is based solely on how you view that player based on his past performance with no allowance whatsoever made for any of them improving.  As usual you only see negatives and seldom a positive.

There's no sense discussing this with you.  You're into your don't confuse me with facts or other possibilities I've already made up my mind mode.  I don't play that game any longer.  Not for over 20 years since I divorced a wife who was just like that too.  I can't divorce you but I sure as hell don't need to waste more time debating with you when Jesus Christ himself couldn't even alter your ways of thinking.

Edited April 6, 2020 by soulman

[dll2000]

1 hour ago, WindyCity said:

Those are not quality options. When you have to put 3-4 qualifiers on them that means that they aren’t that good.

Coward was bad. I say that as someone who saw something in him.

Bars couldn’t get any reps despite how bad things were on the line, that is a major concern.

Ifedi needs to switch positions and learn an entirely new system. He has spent the last 2 years in a power system and that seems to be what we are moving away from.

Bars out played Lucas and Coward in both pre season and practice. 

I surmise they didn't trust him probably because he was a rookie and Lucas had a ton of experience on him.  

As far as guard maybe they didn't feel like he had enough guard reps after using him at tackle second half of camp or maybe they liked what they saw in Coward better.  Or maybe it was rookie thing on both counts.

But as far as physical reps and on field pre season performance he out played those two.  Sometimes the Eastern block judges screw you.

Now is Bars good?  He is okay.  He was better than those guys.  

 

 

 

[dll2000]

Just now, dll2000 said:

Bars out played Lucas and Coward in both pre season and practice. 

I surmise they didn't trust him probably because he was a rookie and Lucas had a ton of experience on him.  

As far as guard maybe they didn't feel like he had enough guard reps after using him at tackle second half of camp or maybe they liked what they saw in Coward better.  Or maybe it was rookie thing on both counts.

But as far as physical reps and on field pre season performance he out played those two.  Sometimes the Eastern block judges screw you.

Now is Bars good?  He is okay.  He was better than those guys.  

 

 

 

Bars was coming off knee surgery too don't forget.  Ostensibly he should be better in 2nd year in both health and experience.   Although Daniels was worse.

 

[abstract_thought]

Devaluing OL is pretty inconsistent with the more balanced, run-centric offensive approach many fans advocate. This OL needs major improvement. They've been 28th or worse in Adjusted Line Yards since 2017.

Pace has spent his picks on WRs and we should probably see how those guys pan out with a real NFL QB before dumping more picks into that position. I don't remember him drafting a single OT. When you work with scrap heap options, you tend to get scrap-heap performance.

[G08]

56 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

Devaluing OL is pretty inconsistent with the more balanced, run-centric offensive approach many fans advocate. This OL needs major improvement. They've been 28th or worse in Adjusted Line Yards since 2017.

Pace has spent his picks on WRs and we should probably see how those guys pan out with a real NFL QB before dumping more picks into that position. I don't remember him drafting a single OT. When you work with scrap heap options, you tend to get scrap-heap performance.

That's a valid point... we need a burner WR at some point though... maybe R5.

[WindyCity]

2 hours ago, soulman said:

"Quality Options" was never mentioned in the post I responded to.  Only "Options".  Besides how you view them is your personal opinion and one that Pace, Nagy and Castillo may not share nor other members here.

In fact everything you post here is based solely on how you view that player based on his past performance with no allowance whatsoever made for any of them improving.  As usual you only see negatives and seldom a positive.

There's no sense discussing this with you.  You're into your don't confuse me with facts or other possibilities I've already made up my mind mode.  I don't play that game any longer.  Not for over 20 years since I divorced a wife who was just like that too.  I can't divorce you but I sure as hell don't need to waste more time debating with you when Jesus Christ himself couldn't even alter your ways of thinking..

I watch the players, I assess the players, your not talking about facts, your talking about possibilities. Possibilities that are not rooted in what we watched on the field.

Bad players could improve. Anything is possible, but we need to deal in what is likely.
 

Jesus himself could not convince me that the Bears do not need more talent on their offensive line.