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Denver Pick at 15


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2 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

I just don't see the point when there's better players elsewhere at positions we need better players in.

There is no position this team needs better players in more than WR.  If the broncos are going to give Lock a legitimate shot at being the long term QB you can’t have Tim Patrick being the #2 WR. 

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12 hours ago, germ-x said:

There is no position this team needs better players in more than WR.  If the broncos are going to give Lock a legitimate shot at being the long term QB you can’t have Tim Patrick being the #2 WR. 


Why would Patrick be the #2?

 

1. Sutton

2. Hamilton

3. Patrick

4. Brown

5. Winfree

6. Spencer 

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19 minutes ago, paul-mac said:


Why would Patrick be the #2?

 

1. Sutton

2. Hamilton

3. Patrick

4. Brown

5. Winfree

6. Spencer 

Hamilton is a guy who still has some hope - but on good teams, he's no more than the slot guy, and clear #3.  

IMO we have no #2 WR on our current roster.   No one below Sutton should be guaranteed a roster spot...although given our inactivity at FA so far, I'd say at least 2 of those 5 guys will make the roster, and 1-2 on the PS, unless Elway starts mining the value bin.   To be clear, there are 2-3 FA's still who would jump in right away and be our WR2 on that chart (Rashard Higgins being #1 on my list).

Edited by Broncofan
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Given that they have done nothing to address the glaring hole at WR I think it is safe to assume that's where the target is focused in the draft. To many that means a WR, like Ruggs, at #15. But, I'm holding out hope they take a BPA at a position of need - which, in addition to WR, includes CB, OT and ILB - but this off season reminds me an awful lot of 2017 where they basically announced to the world they were taking a LT in the first round and ended up with the meathead. 

WR is a dependent position and, yes, while we have a glaring hole there drafting a WR in the first round is almost always bad value. I've made this point before, who was the last true superstar, elite WR to win a Super Bowl? If you don't count DT with us SB50, you have to go back to 2006 when Marvin Harrison was on the Colts. 

Given that, plus the extraordinary depth I keep hearing that this draft's crop of WRs has, going a different round at #15 would be the preferred path, IMO. 

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I’d love any of the top 3 WR, because they are sexy and it would be a blast to watch them grow with Locke, Sutton, Fant, Lindsey...

That said, from a team building standpoint, I HATE the idea of taking a WR in round 1.  Way too many busts.  Way too many opportunities to get very good players later in the draft.  Maybe it come from this Lions teams that took a. WR at number 1 back to back years (or whatever it was), and couldn’t win a game.  
Personally, in a perfect world, I hope they take Kinlaw.  I doubt that ends up being the choice, but a disruptive interior DL is very rare, and is essential to maximizing our Edge players and thus having any hope of containing Mahomes.  If the top 3 WR and top 4 OT are gone and they go with Kinlaw, I’d be ecstatic!
 

id also have no problem with a trade back if none of Kinlaw or the 4 OT / 3 WR are there (@BroncoFan’s doomsday scenario of only 2 QB’s taken or Brown falling).  I think there is a TON of great value from 20 - 80 in this draft, and I’d love to find a way to pick up an extra couple in that range.  

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id also have no problem with a trade back if none of Kinlaw or the 4 OT / 3 WR are there (@BroncoFan’s doomsday scenario of only 2 QB’s taken or Brown falling).  I think there is a TON of great value from 20 - 80 in this draft, and I’d love to find a way to pick up an extra couple in that range.  

Right there with you. Realistically I would put one of Kinlaw, 4OT, 3WR being there at 15 around 75%. I just really think someone will trade up for Herbert. He is inconsistent and likely needs to sit a season, but this is a big play passing league right now and his arm is pretty special. Easily better than Burrow or Tua. That clip of him throwing 65 yards flat footed doesn't mean anything on the field but really displayed that he is the most physically talented QB in this draft. Teams bet on their staff, someone will bet on being able to coach Justin up. Add in 4.68 40 and a NBA like 36 inch vert at 6'6 and your looking at a special physical specimen. 

Edited by BroncosFan2010
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1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Right there with you. Realistically I would put one of Kinlaw, 4OT, 3WR being there at 15 around 75%. I just really think someone will trade up for Herbert. He is inconsistent and likely needs to sit a season, but this is a big play passing league right now and his arm is pretty special. Easily better than Burrow or Tua. That clip of him throwing 65 yards flat footed doesn't mean anything on the field but really displayed that he is the most physically talented QB in this draft. Teams bet on their staff, someone will bet on being able to coach Justin up. Add in 4.68 40 and a NBA like 36 inch vert at 6'6 and your looking at a special physical specimen. 

The problem is that all those tools led to zero growth and disappointing big game production.   L's against inferior talent teams that were a direct result of TO's.   That's a major flag.  You can overcome it if you have elite, generational tools, and if you've had a stunted growth curve because of the college system you were in (Mahomes).   Herbert doesn't have that level of talent IMO - speed is elite, but the arm talent is not Allen/Mahomes level.    And his tape is just so....meh.     I just hope someone falls in love with those tools.

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The problem is that all those tools led to zero growth and disappointing big game production.   L's against inferior talent teams that were a direct result of TO's.   That's a major flag.  You can overcome it if you have elite, generational tools, and if you've had a stunted growth curve because of the college system you were in (Mahomes).   Herbert doesn't have that level of talent IMO - speed is elite, but the arm talent is not Allen/Mahomes level.    And his tape is just so....meh.     I just hope someone falls in love with those tools.

I agree for the most part, but as I said teams bank on themselves. I think Herbert is closer to a Lock level talent coming out. People saw Lock as a happy footed guy with questionable pocket presence, and I think they were right. Look at his development in those areas from preseason to the last 5 games. As someone will do with Herbert, we did with Lock. We bet on the physical traits and trusted our staff to build up on his bad areas and he did just that. Most FO's believe their staff can do the same when given a toolsy guy. For that reason I could see Herbert going Top-15. I was not high on Lock but had him going top 20 for that reason, evidenced the year before by Josh Allen going like 10 to Buffalo. Teams bet on themselves.

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I would rather draft Love than Herbert.
 

Man, I don't love Herbert but I hate Love. He has most the same questions but worse accuracy, worse athleticism and not as good an arm (Some will disagree here). He just does nothing for me. 

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19 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I agree for the most part, but as I said teams bank on themselves. I think Herbert is closer to a Lock level talent coming out. People saw Lock as a happy footed guy with questionable pocket presence, and I think they were right. Look at his development in those areas from preseason to the last 5 games. As someone will do with Herbert, we did with Lock. We bet on the physical traits and trusted our staff to build up on his bad areas and he did just that. Most FO's believe their staff can do the same when given a toolsy guy. For that reason I could see Herbert going Top-15. I was not high on Lock but had him going top 20 for that reason, evidenced the year before by Josh Allen going like 10 to Buffalo. Teams bet on themselves.

 

Absolutely, teams do it all the time.  But the key part with Lock - the risk was much lower.    Remember when we debated endlessly on taking Lock 1.10?   That's a megaton of risk - and frankly, had we done it, we'd probably be more nervous than we are now.   As it stands, getting Fant (who's no lock - yes I went there - yet, but it's at least promising) and Risner (he's a lock barring injury to be elite IMO) before we took Lock just made the equation way more palatable.   I'm glad we don't have to make that type of decision this year.   Imagine passing on one of the top 15 talents to consider Love, for example.   

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I believe Lock was easily a top 15 prospect in last year's draft but you have dumb organizations like the Redskins and Snyder had a relationship with Haskins already.Lock had unbelievable spatial ability and accuracy even with poor footwork it was truly amazing tbh.

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