Burrow vs Lamar vs Mayfield: who would you take as a GM?

[M.10.E]

1 hour ago, WizeGuy said:

Why is Baker an option?

Why is Burrow an option?

Why was this poll even made?

[MikeT14]

23 minutes ago, M.10.E said:

Why is Burrow an option?

Why was this poll even made?

Probably to hype Jackson.

[MWil23]

I think we are all super curious to see if Lamar can sustain what he did in 2019. I think we are all curious to see if Burrow can come into Cincinnati and replicate what he did in his senior year at LSU. I think that many of us want to see if Baker's 2019 was a simple sophomore regression after a great rookie season, or if defenses "figured him out" and he's a poor man's Brett Favre.

[Aussie9er]

Running qbs just dont win in playoffs until they do i choose burrow cause the other two are rubbish. 

[M.10.E]

1 hour ago, MikeT14 said:

Probably to hype Jackson.

Anyone who picks the one of other 3 isn't worth paying attention to.

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

I think we are all super curious to see if Lamar can sustain what he did in 2019. I think we are all curious to see if Burrow can come into Cincinnati and replicate what he did in his senior year at LSU. I think that many of us want to see if Baker's 2019 was a simple sophomore regression after a great rookie season, or if defenses "figured him out" and he's a poor man's Brett Favre.

I mean, I think everyone knows (Ravens fans included) that's doubtful to an extent...if he consistently did what he did last year every season he'd be like the best player in NFL history lol.

36 TDs 6 INTs Passing with 1200 Rushing Yards, 7 Rush TDs

If that's the bar we're setting for him to "sustain", the guy would finish his NFL career with like 350+ passing TDs, under 70 INTs, and over 10-12,000 rushing yards with 70ish rush TDs lol that would be basically Aaron Rodgers through the air and Marshall Faulk/Earl Campbell on the ground, career-numbers wise. That's just unrealistic to expect.

But what will happen now that he just had one of the more impressive seasons in the last 25 years of the NFL - I guarantee - is that his detractors are going to find a way to use that against him moving forward. He could still have a very good year at the QB position moving forward, but if 2019, unanimous MVP is the standard he's expected to sustain just to prove wrong the people that already hold the opinion that he's overrated? Ridiculous. We're going to hear a lot of

"Lamar's not on an all-time great statistical projection like he was in 2019 during his MVP year? See, I TOLD everyone he was a flash in the pan...the NFL figured him out/he couldn't sustain it, I knew it. Overrated" in the coming years.

I know this website and the people on it well enough to know that's coming. 

[wackywabbit]

2 hours ago, MikeT14 said:

Probably to hype Jackson.

Not really. There are plenty of people who think Jackson is fundamentally flawed from a long-term perspective, which is what the outlook for this poll is. There are plenty of people commenting exactly that. It's kind of funny that half the posts are "it's Lamar and it's not even a question" and those people ignore the other posts saying the opposite. We are also very early in the careers of the 2018 class. Lamar has started only 22 regular season games. Baker would be winning in a landslide this time last year.

If you were to pose this same question to actual GM's I absolutely think you would get some different answers. The value of the rights to a #1 overall QB prospect coming off a season like Burrow had is massive. If you think Lamar is going to fall off, you might think building something with Burrow is the better long term move.

My point is that this isn't a decided answer. If Mahomes was an option vs this group, I would say that would not be a debate at all. There would be 32/32 GMs with the same answer. 

[SalvadorsDeli]

4 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

I mean, I think everyone knows (Ravens fans included) that's doubtful to an extent...if he consistently did what he did last year every season he'd be like the best player in NFL history lol.

36 TDs 6 INTs Passing with 1200 Rushing Yards, 7 Rush TDs

If that's the bar we're setting for him to "sustain", the guy would finish his NFL career with like 350+ passing TDs, under 70 INTs, and over 10-12,000 rushing yards with 70ish rush TDs lol that would be basically Aaron Rodgers through the air and Marshall Faulk/Earl Campbell on the ground, career-numbers wise. That's just unrealistic to expect.

When we talk about whether Lamar's production is 'sustainable' it really just comes down to what people mean by that. Will he replicate the efficiency and dominance he showed in 2019? Even if he improves as a quarterback overall and continues his elite play last year, that wouldn't even guarantee he hits the same raw metrics as his MVP year. So I think some level of 'regression' is expected. 

 The way a lot of people wield that argument, they make it sound like they expect Lamar to regress to basically being an average to below average QB and I think a lot of that is unfounded. If Lamar had been some journeyman QB who randomly produced a historically efficient and great year in like his 7th year in the league after being average for 6 years... ala something closer to what Ryan Tannehill did? Then I think there'd be more reason to be outright skeptical about his abilities. But he's a 1st round pick who was the unanimous MVP in his first full year starting in the league, in his age-22 season. That sort of trajectory is one of an elite QB, full stop. And in that sense I think 'regression' means something different than I think the way most people talk about it. In many ways Pat Mahomes regressed in 2019 compared to 2018, even adjusting for injury, because throwing for 50 TD's is really really hard even when you're operating at an elite level. But Mahomes regressing from an efficiency standpoint didn't change the evaluation of Mahomes as an elite QB, nor should it have, nor did anyone talk about him in December, pre-playoff God mode, like he had actually gotten worse.

And while the exact outputs might be different, that's more or less what I expect to see from Lamar in terms of his overall ability, even if some of his raw stats look different. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by BaltimoreTerp

[Ray Reed]

47 minutes ago, BaltimoreTerp said:

When we talk about whether Lamar's production is 'sustainable' it really just comes down to what people mean by that. Will he replicate the efficiency and dominance he showed in 2019? Even if he improves as a quarterback overall and continues his elite play last year, that wouldn't even guarantee he hits the same raw metrics as his MVP year. So I think some level of 'regression' is expected. 

 The way a lot of people wield that argument, they make it sound like they expect Lamar to regress to basically being an average to below average QB and I think a lot of that is unfounded. If Lamar had been some journeyman QB who randomly produced a historically efficient and great year in like his 7th year in the league after being average for 6 years... ala something closer to what Ryan Tannehill did? Then I think there'd be more reason to be outright skeptical about his abilities. But he's a 1st round pick who was the unanimous MVP in his first full year starting in the league, in his age-22 season. That sort of trajectory is one of an elite QB, full stop. And in that sense I think 'regression' meas something different than I think the way most people talk about it. In many ways Pat Mahomes regressed in 2020 compared to 2019, even adjusting for injury, because throwing for 50 TD's is really really hard even when you're operating at an elite level. But Mahomes regressing from an efficiency standpoint didn't change the evaluation of Mahomes as an elite QB, nor should it have, nor did anyone talk about him in December, pre-playoff God mode, like he had actually gotten worse.

And while the exact outputs might be different, that's more or less what I expect to see from Lamar in terms of his overall ability, even if some of his raw stats look different. 

I agree and expect the exact same on all accounts tbh.

But you and I both know that if Lamar’s raw stats dip in subsequent years - even if he’s playing the position at a higher level than his MVP campaign - there will be way more people that jump on that as proof that he’s regressed/been figured out simply because of how many people pigeonholed themselves into the “this guy can’t play QB in this league” narrative.

They didn’t have as much at stake with Mahomes when it came to their personal evaluations/opinions, and that’s why everyone on this board objectively conceded that a dip in Mahomes’ raw stats last year wasn’t representative of him actually regressing.

Lamar - because of the limb so many people went out on early in his career - will not be afforded that same objectivity. At least not here lol.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Ray Reed

[Letsch80]

11 hours ago, Aussie9er said:

Running qbs just dont win in playoffs until they do i choose burrow cause the other two are rubbish. 

Lol!!  That may be the dumbest rationale I've ever heard.. Lets pick the non drafted quarterback who will be leading the Bengals vs the unanimous MVP who is leasing a Super Bowl Caliber team!! 

 

[mtmmike]

Lamar is going to be killed by my defense

Mayfield no QB in the last 20 years has won a Super Bowl with 3 different head coaches. 

4 trade mayfield get a boat load of draft picks in2021 so i get Burrows plus picks

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

On 4/8/2020 at 6:30 AM, Aussie9er said:

Running qbs just dont win in playoffs until they do i choose burrow cause the other two are rubbish. 

Kaepernick went to a Superbowl. Russell Wilson has 1 Superbowl win + another SB appearance. Your logic is just flat out wrong. Unless you're suddenly going to decide that QB's like Kaepernick and Wilson aren't "running" QB's, or that Lamar Jackson isn't capable of passing the football?

Edited April 9, 2020 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[candyman93]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Kaepernick went to a Superbowl. Russell Wilson has 1 Superbowl win + another SB appearance. Your logic is just flat out wrong. Unless you're suddenly going to decide that QB's like Kaepernick and Wilson aren't "running" QB's, or that Lamar Jackson isn't capable of passing the football?

Kaepernick is the perfect comp in terms of success, except I think Lamar will have more longevity.

 

RW is not a good comp.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

41 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Kaepernick is the perfect comp in terms of success, except I think Lamar will have more longevity.

RW is not a good comp.

Then you're going to extremes to define "running QB's" then, because when the Seahawks won their Superbowl with Russell Wilson he was a 3K passing yard QB whose team was among the league's lowest in passing attempts per game. He just wasn't putting up the insane per-game rushing totals that Lamar is, because Lamar's a much more talented runner than Russell is.

[DawgX]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Then you're going to extremes to define "running QB's" then, because when the Seahawks won their Superbowl with Russell Wilson he was a 3K passing yard QB whose team was among the league's lowest in passing attempts per game. He just wasn't putting up the insane per-game rushing totals that Lamar is, because Lamar's a much more talented runner than Russell is.

Wilson doesn't need to rely on his legs as much as Lamar does, as he's a far better passer than Lamar. Again, bad comparison.