Reuben Foster running on a treadmill

[turtle28]

This is a positive sign considering it was last October when he posted this, it's April now and the season doesn't start for 6 months at the earliest.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by turtle28

[e16bball]

Crazy thing is, he posted that video back in October. It’s part of why I’ve been a little confused about the absolute 100% certainty that he won’t be able to play this year. He might not, but damn...the guy is making some progress. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

Crazy thing is, he posted that video back in October. It’s part of why I’ve been a little confused about the absolute 100% certainty that he won’t be able to play this year. He might not, but damn...the guy is making some progress. 

Yeah, I wish I had seen that back in October or that the media had reported on it better. It's a very good sign for him being ready in September or whenever the season starts.

My latest prediction was he’d start the season on PUP but I'm thinking that he’ll be ready for the season now.

It's great news!

Another thing is that his 5th year option is coming up. We have to make a decision on whether to exercise the 5th year option on both Reuben Foster and Jon Allen. Jon Allen is a no brainer and we may even want to extend him so that we lower his 2021 cap number.

I think with Foster that we shouldn't exercise his 5th year option, it will cost around $10 million to give him that 5th year option.

We should see what he does in 2020 and then re-sign him to a new contract depending on what he does.

https://www.hogshaven.com/platform/amp/2019/12/27/21037879/what-to-do-with-reuben-fosters-5th-year-option

Every player selected in the first round of the NFL draft has a 5th year option on their contract - a “bonus” that gives the team the right to retain him for an additional year under a fixed set of salary conditions. In the case of a player drafted outside of the top 10, like Foster (or Jon Allen, for whom we have the same decision this offseason), the 5th year option salary is calculated by taking the average salaries of the 3rd through 25th players at the position. As an example, last year, the 5th year option amount for linebackers in this draft range was ~$9.5M (the prior year, it had been about $9.2M). So, for the sake of this exercise, let’s assume Foster’s 2021 5th year option will be around $10M.

The team must make a decision on Foster’s (and Allen’s) 5th year options by very early May 2020 or otherwise allow them to pursue free agency at the end of the 2020 season.

One Path Forward

The reality is that we will have no new information on Foster’s ability to perform in the NFL prior to having to make a decision on his 5th year option. We also have a significant need to upgrade our ILB play in the coming years, and, if Foster could realize his potential in the NFL, he could certainly be a key piece of that. Finally, it’s important to remember that in 2020 we still have Foster on a very team-friendly $1.7M deal (rookie contracts are glorious).

So, if we were to extend Foster through 2021, we would be paying him about $6M AAV ($1.7M + $10M) over the next two years, which would put him just outside the top 20 ILB salaries. That would be a great deal, if he pans out, but a fairly expensive mistake with the 2021 salary cap if he happens to bust.

One option would be for the Redskins’ new GM to use this uncertainty to get creative: Why not propose something like a 4-year deal at an AAV of $7M, with two years ($14M) guaranteed and load it up with some incentives? If Foster busts hard and has a career-ending injury, that’s about $12M at risk (which shouldn’t be taken lightly), but if he plays either at a starter or stud level, that’s a pretty good (or great) deal for the Redskins through 2023.

Another reasonable alternative - that I think I would prefer - would be to pass on Foster’s 5th year extension altogether and let him “bet on himself” in 2020, though if he plays well, he’s likely looking at a second contract in the $10M AAV range (which could still translate into a solid compensatory pick if the Redskins declined signing him). The difference in option 1 and option 2 is only about $4M (total), spread across 4 years. That “surcharge” seems like a reasonable hedge to pay if Foster manages to get on the right track.

Edited April 4, 2020 by turtle28

[naptownskinsfan]

We still will be rebuilding in 2021 and having some effects from the Alex Smith contract, so I don't see an issue with extending the fifth year option to Foster if they like him.  

Ron Rivera and the coaching staff didn't make this move.  They have no loyalty to him, so it's anyone's guess what will happen.  

[Thaiphoon]

4 hours ago, e16bball said:

Crazy thing is, he posted that video back in October. It’s part of why I’ve been a little confused about the absolute 100% certainty that he won’t be able to play this year. He might not, but damn...the guy is making some progress. 

Good progress. I'm one that was fairly certain he wouldn't play this year. He's making much better progress than I thought he would given what was reported so perhaps the reporting back in October was a little more dire than his actual condition? Either way, I'm more than happy to be wrong if he does suit up and play for us. I think we need to be cautious though. Running on a treadmill is not the same as moving, cutting, twisting, etc.. against other players. So it might be @turtle28's prediction of him starting on the PUP and maybe making it into the season if he shows more improvement.

But this IS good news!

[turtle28]

44 minutes ago, naptownskinsfan said:

We still will be rebuilding in 2021 and having some effects from the Alex Smith contract, so I don't see an issue with extending the fifth year option to Foster if they like him.  

Ron Rivera and the coaching staff didn't make this move.  They have no loyalty to him, so it's anyone's guess what will happen.  

Oh I just remembered, they can cut Foster next February if they don’t want to pay him the $10million on the 5th year option right? Isn’t that what we did with RG3?

In April or May of 2015 we gave RG3 the 5th year option but then cut him in 2016 before the league year began, right? So we never had to pay him that $16 million for that season.

Or is that guaranteed once you give it to them?

[e16bball]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Another thing is that his 5th year option is coming up. We have to make a decision on whether to exercise the 5th year option on both Reuben Foster and Jon Allen. Jon Allen is a no brainer and we may even want to extend him so that we lower his 2021 cap number.

I think with Foster that we shouldn't exercise his 5th year option, it will cost around $10 million to give him that 5th year option.

We should see what he does in 2020 and then re-sign him to a new contract depending on what he does.

Definitely a big issue. 

One idea I’ve floated in the past is trying to work out an extension that allows us to bet on him, and allows him to hedge his bets a bit. Something like a 2/$12M deal with like $7M guaranteed, to cover 2021 and 2022.

It gives him some financial security, in that he’s guaranteed literally nothing after 2020 season at this point. If he can’t get back, he may never see a payday that’s anywhere near $7M again. And if he can get back, he hits FA at age 28 — in the middle of his prime and ready to cash in. 

From our perspective, it gives us the opportunity to have this guy locked down for a few years on an extremely team-friendly deal (basically 3/$13.7M, factoring in the 2020 salary). It requires gambling on him, but the upside is substantial if he can get back to where he was a rookie. 

I am 100% certain that the Redskins won’t do this. It’s much too creative and it involves a modicum of risk, which apparently makes them uncomfortable. But I think they should. You have to take chances to get from the cellar to the penthouse, and I think this is the kind of talent to roll a dice on. Especially when the stakes are so low. If it doesn’t work out, so what? It’s $7M spread over a couple seasons — they might just have to go cheap at their beloved “journeyman backup OL” spot for a year or two to recoup the loss. 

[ripsean21]

54 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Definitely a big issue. 

One idea I’ve floated in the past is trying to work out an extension that allows us to bet on him, and allows him to hedge his bets a bit. Something like a 2/$12M deal with like $7M guaranteed, to cover 2021 and 2022.

It gives him some financial security, in that he’s guaranteed literally nothing after 2020 season at this point. If he can’t get back, he may never see a payday that’s anywhere near $7M again. And if he can get back, he hits FA at age 28 — in the middle of his prime and ready to cash in. 

From our perspective, it gives us the opportunity to have this guy locked down for a few years on an extremely team-friendly deal (basically 3/$13.7M, factoring in the 2020 salary). It requires gambling on him, but the upside is substantial if he can get back to where he was a rookie. 

I am 100% certain that the Redskins won’t do this. It’s much too creative and it involves a modicum of risk, which apparently makes them uncomfortable. But I think they should. You have to take chances to get from the cellar to the penthouse, and I think this is the kind of talent to roll a dice on. Especially when the stakes are so low. If it doesn’t work out, so what? It’s $7M spread over a couple seasons — they might just have to go cheap at their beloved “journeyman backup OL” spot for a year or two to recoup the loss. 

I wish they would though!!! It’s a great idea

[naptownskinsfan]

7 hours ago, e16bball said:

Definitely a big issue. 

One idea I’ve floated in the past is trying to work out an extension that allows us to bet on him, and allows him to hedge his bets a bit. Something like a 2/$12M deal with like $7M guaranteed, to cover 2021 and 2022.

It gives him some financial security, in that he’s guaranteed literally nothing after 2020 season at this point. If he can’t get back, he may never see a payday that’s anywhere near $7M again. And if he can get back, he hits FA at age 28 — in the middle of his prime and ready to cash in. 

From our perspective, it gives us the opportunity to have this guy locked down for a few years on an extremely team-friendly deal (basically 3/$13.7M, factoring in the 2020 salary). It requires gambling on him, but the upside is substantial if he can get back to where he was a rookie. 

I am 100% certain that the Redskins won’t do this. It’s much too creative and it involves a modicum of risk, which apparently makes them uncomfortable. But I think they should. You have to take chances to get from the cellar to the penthouse, and I think this is the kind of talent to roll a dice on. Especially when the stakes are so low. If it doesn’t work out, so what? It’s $7M spread over a couple seasons — they might just have to go cheap at their beloved “journeyman backup OL” spot for a year or two to recoup the loss. 

Given Rivera's propensity for one year deals, I doubt that is going to happen but it's not a bad idea at all. 

[turtle28]

6 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Given Rivera's propensity for one year deals, I doubt that is going to happen but it's not a bad idea at all. 

I don't think we can assume that every offseason will be the same as this one was for the Redskins in free agency under Rivera. Rivera just got here, he hasn't had the time to evaluate the Entire Redskins organization. He hasn't had a year yet with the young talent to see if he and DelRio can get more out of it then Jay, Callahan and Manusky - which we all think they will - so, they could have an entirely different direction to free agency next year and even a GM may be hired at some point in lieu of just Rivera, Kyle, Rogers, Grimble & Santos making the personnel decisions.

[turtle28]

[naptownskinsfan]

Here are the biggest FA signings each year while Rivera was with the Panthers

2011: Olindo Mare 3 yr, $12 million

2012: Mike Tolbert 4 yr, $10 million

2013: Chase Blackburn 2 yr deal, can't find the money but I'm sure it's nothing

2014: Roman Harper 4 yr, $10.6 million/ Jericho Cotchery 5 yr, $8 million 

2015: Michael Oher 2 yr, $7 million 

2016: Paul Soliai 2 yr, $7 million

2017: Matt Kalil 5 yr, $55 million (also brought back Captain Munnerlyn at 4 yr, $17 million after he was gone for a few years) 

2018: Dontari Poe 3 yr, $10 million 

2019: Matt Paradis 3 yr, $27 million

Very interesting.  Also, only ONE big ticket signing (Kalil) during that time, who played so badly he was out after two years and replaced by the Panthers second-biggest FA signing over that time. 

Now, I did not include trades into this, otherwise you could count Greg Olson at the beginning as they traded for him and gave him a big contract.  The Panthers also did a great job at keeping their own players.

What's also interesting is that this happened across two different general managers- Marty Hurney to start, then Dave Gettleman from 2013-17, and then Hurney again.  So extrapolating from this, it's safe to say that Rivera has either had a huge say in who and what they go after, or has learned from what the front office did, and I would say this would heavily influence his decision making moving forward.  Expect a huge focus on the draft, and not so much on free agency. 

[ripsean21]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Here are the biggest FA signings each year while Rivera was with the Panthers

2011: Olindo Mare 3 yr, $12 million

2012: Mike Tolbert 4 yr, $10 million

2013: Chase Blackburn 2 yr deal, can't find the money but I'm sure it's nothing

2014: Roman Harper 4 yr, $10.6 million/ Jericho Cotchery 5 yr, $8 million 

2015: Michael Oher 2 yr, $7 million 

2016: Paul Soliai 2 yr, $7 million

2017: Matt Kalil 5 yr, $55 million (also brought back Captain Munnerlyn at 4 yr, $17 million after he was gone for a few years) 

2018: Dontari Poe 3 yr, $10 million 

2019: Matt Paradis 3 yr, $27 million

Very interesting.  Also, only ONE big ticket signing (Kalil) during that time, who played so badly he was out after two years and replaced by the Panthers second-biggest FA signing over that time. 

Now, I did not include trades into this, otherwise you could count Greg Olson at the beginning as they traded for him and gave him a big contract.  The Panthers also did a great job at keeping their own players.

What's also interesting is that this happened across two different general managers- Marty Hurney to start, then Dave Gettleman from 2013-17, and then Hurney again.  So extrapolating from this, it's safe to say that Rivera has either had a huge say in who and what they go after, or has learned from what the front office did, and I would say this would heavily influence his decision making moving forward.  Expect a huge focus on the draft, and not so much on free agency. 

This is how it should be. Keep our guys. We’ve been drafting pretty well. Last year was the kind of draft if you can duplicate in 3 year period you can make runs with. But they need to keep our talent in house. I’m not a huge FA guy. Last year they did what I wanted got Collins and got out for the most part. This year make a run at Hooper and do what they did. Fuller is a big signing. 
 

I think we will use FA alittle more then they used it there. But I don’t expect much more then that or what we have done recently. But those guys most of them had quality impacts on those teams. And Kahalil was a bust but they tried to protect their QB I get the investment. But I like the fact we will be adding through the draft!!! I like the fact their going to play their draft picks because their valued. That’s what good teams will do. 

[naptownskinsfan]

7 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

This is how it should be. Keep our guys. We’ve been drafting pretty well. Last year was the kind of draft if you can duplicate in 3 year period you can make runs with. But they need to keep our talent in house. I’m not a huge FA guy. Last year they did what I wanted got Collins and got out for the most part. This year make a run at Hooper and do what they did. Fuller is a big signing. 
 

I think we will use FA alittle more then they used it there. But I don’t expect much more then that or what we have done recently. But those guys most of them had quality impacts on those teams. And Kahalil was a bust but they tried to protect their QB I get the investment. But I like the fact we will be adding through the draft!!! I like the fact their going to play their draft picks because their valued. That’s what good teams will do. 

I agree with the principle.  In practice, I do not believe the Redskins have been drafting pretty well.  I would say we've been average to slightly above average.  

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

Here are the biggest FA signings each year while Rivera was with the Panthers

2011: Olindo Mare 3 yr, $12 million

2012: Mike Tolbert 4 yr, $10 million

2013: Chase Blackburn 2 yr deal, can't find the money but I'm sure it's nothing

2014: Roman Harper 4 yr, $10.6 million/ Jericho Cotchery 5 yr, $8 million 

2015: Michael Oher 2 yr, $7 million 

2016: Paul Soliai 2 yr, $7 million

2017: Matt Kalil 5 yr, $55 million (also brought back Captain Munnerlyn at 4 yr, $17 million after he was gone for a few years) 

2018: Dontari Poe 3 yr, $10 million 

2019: Matt Paradis 3 yr, $27 million

Very interesting.  Also, only ONE big ticket signing (Kalil) during that time, who played so badly he was out after two years and replaced by the Panthers second-biggest FA signing over that time. 

Now, I did not include trades into this, otherwise you could count Greg Olson at the beginning as they traded for him and gave him a big contract.  The Panthers also did a great job at keeping their own players.

What's also interesting is that this happened across two different general managers- Marty Hurney to start, then Dave Gettleman from 2013-17, and then Hurney again.  So extrapolating from this, it's safe to say that Rivera has either had a huge say in who and what they go after, or has learned from what the front office did, and I would say this would heavily influence his decision making moving forward.  Expect a huge focus on the draft, and not so much on free agency. 

Let me know which one of those years that Rob Rivera had final say/total control of building the roster.

I mean, are we just going to ignore that we offered Amari Cooper over $100 million? Come on dude. You can't continue to post this stuff and then ignore what Rivera/Rogers/Kyle Smith offered Cooper and that the fact that they were in the running - at least up to a certain point - of a long term deal with Hooper. Hooper said it was down to the Browns & Redskins.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/austin-hooper-free-agency-it-really-came-down-cleveland-and-washington

Austin Hooper signed the richest contract ever for a tight end last week when he agreed to a four-year deal with the Browns worth $42 million, and that includes $23 million guaranteed. 

 

With a giant hole at the tight end position and plenty of cash to spend, multiple reports suggested the Redskins would be aggressive in their pursuit of Hooper. And it sounds like they were. 

"It really came down to Cleveland and Washington," Hooper said. "At the end, I chose to be a Brown."

Hooper's comments came during an interview with SiriusXM NFL Radio and the talented tight end explained that he thought highly of Washington but just liked the situation in Cleveland better. Much of that was the chance to play with quarterback Baker Mayfield.

"It's too exciting of an opportunity to pass up," Hooper said of playing with the Browns. On Mayfield specifically, Hooper cited "how hungry he is to win that’s something that really jumped out to me."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2020-nfl-free-agency-amari-cooper-shuns-bigger-offer-from-redskins-to-remain-with-cowboys/amp/

How much more was he offered by the Redskins? Well, the deal reportedly notchedaround the $110 million mark, on a deal that would've "put him right there with [Atlanta Falcons receiver] Julio Jones" -- per Ed Werder of ESPN. Jones currently leads the WR market with a deal averaging $22 million per year, and Cooper agreed to a $20 million per year deal in Dallas. 

He'll also get the added benefit of escaping state taxes, which in and of itself made the $110 million offer from the Redskins less of a difference. 

A separate source tells CBS Sports the final $100 million figure from the Cowboys wasn't the one they went into Monday morning holding in their hand -- instead upping their previous offer slightly to appease Cooper and to stave off the Redskins. And with that, the Cowboys have their franchise wide receiver for the foreseeable future, while enjoying the added pleasure of having slammed the door shut on their bitter rival.

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