2018 College Prospect Thread

[broncos67]

Here's the worry I have, and it's the Catch-22 I think we'll find ourselves in if we keep Vance Joseph.

Ideally, if we do decide to go after a QB in 2018, there would be sufficient input from both coach and GM- this is clearly a weakness of John Elway at the moment. The problem is, what if Vance isn't the long-term answer? Do you consult him anyway, knowing he may not be your coach for the future? Does Elway go it alone and do what he's done with Lynch/Osweiler with ZERO success? 

This is why I think you have to somewhat make a determination on Joseph before the draft. If everyone feels good about the QB and he's a no doubt prospect, then it's a moot point, but a draft like this is bound to have some differing opinions and it matters how the chain of command will work, provided we do go after a QB in Round 1.

[Scoundrel]

Just a question for discussion. If we drafted a player like McGlinchey or Connor Williams do you think Bolles should stay on the left side or move to right tackle? 

[Broncofan]

40 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Just a question for discussion. If we drafted a player like McGlinchey or Connor Williams do you think Bolles should stay on the left side or move to right tackle? 

If we draft a LT Bolles moves to RT.   He is LT capable but pass-blocking easier for the QB to adjust to him seeing what's in front of  him.  Plus he and Leary would be a really good rush combo.  He's always going to have pass-block issues, easier to manage as RT.

[Scoundrel]

So if we went Connor Williams, a LG in round 2, traded a 4th for a vet QB like Tyrod. Went ILB and Dline with some of those mid round picks like round 3 and the other 4th, 5th whatever. Would anyone think we might be headed towards being competitive again?

[Scoundrel]

A Line of let's say

LT- Connor Williams

LG- Mason Cole

C- Paradis

RG- Leary

RT- Bolles

Would help a lot if those rookies panned out obviously. 

 

[Broncofan]

1 hour ago, Counselor said:

So if we went Connor Williams, a LG in round 2, traded a 4th for a vet QB like Tyrod. Went ILB and Dline with some of those mid round picks like round 3 and the other 4th, 5th whatever. Would anyone think we might be headed towards being competitive again?

A G can be found in FA much easier than a T can.    I think we just stick with the BPA philosophy and don't get too caught up in trying to fix our roster for 2018 - that type of thinking is what's gotten us to this purgatory.  If it happens like NO, great.   If not, we're on our way back.  

We're not so bad we'll need a 3-4 year rebuild...but we shouldn't compromise our draft principles of overall BPA in 2018 to try and go for it....even if we are better, we are probably nowhere near a serious SB contender.  To do that, we have to be strong on both sides of the ball in the trenches...and we need to upgrade QB.  I don't think the changes above do enough (they would make us a 8-8 to 10-6 team, good enough to sniff playoffs if it all came together- then get rolled in week 1 playoffs).

Honestly, we just need to see where we are, how the draft board looks, and make plans from there.  So many variables right now.  Only 1 certainty - the more we lose, the better our chances become to have an impact draft.   Just lose baby.  

[germ-x]

A franchise QB is the answer.  People are complaining about other positions and sure they need addressed, but a franchise QB could drive this team for the next 10-15 years.  And it’s far easier to find an ILB or an offensive lineman or any other position than it is a franchise QB.

You’d think Broncos fans would realize this as Denver has done nothing (aside from one of Plummers seasons) without Elway or Manning since 1983.

[Broncofan]

27 minutes ago, germ-x said:

A franchise QB is the answer.  People are complaining about other positions and sure they need addressed, but a franchise QB could drive this team for the next 10-15 years.  And it’s far easier to find an ILB or an offensive lineman or any other position than it is a franchise QB.

You’d think Broncos fans would realize this as Denver has done nothing (aside from one of Plummers seasons) without Elway or Manning since 1983.

While absolutely correct, the issue is that we may not have that guy if the G-men and say the Browns (or Bills with their 2 first rounders) get Darnold/Rosen before us.   I don't think there's anyone else who's worth a top 5-10 pick, not even close (I know some think Mayfield could be that guy - but if you're not sold, and it's pretty clear people aren't - pass at that stage.     If that's the case...then overall BPA still holds.

The thing is if that there is a true franchise QB, then by default he fits the BPA argument.   Because franchise QB's are bigger difference makers than anywhere else.  Reaching for a QB that isn't at that level, out of need, I'm totally against.   A non-elite QB does not make the same difference as an elite player at another key position does.   It's what we did with Lynch (Chris Jones was our consensus pick if we did pass on Lynch...sigh)....pass on anyone else in that range.   

[Scoundrel]

First of all I am assuming both Rosen and Darnold are gone. Second off I'm assuming these are BPA who fill needs as well. I'm not pigeon holing but instead speculating on how the line could look. Connor Williams may very well be BPA when we pick.

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

While absolutely correct, the issue is that we may not have that guy if the G-men and say the Browns (or Bills with their 2 first rounders) get Darnold/Rosen before us.   I don't think there's anyone else who's worth a top 5-10 pick, not even close (I know some think Mayfield could be that guy - but if you're not sold, and it's pretty clear people aren't - pass at that stage.     If that's the case...then overall BPA still holds.

The thing is if that there is a true franchise QB, then by default he fits the BPA argument.   Because franchise QB's are bigger difference makers than anywhere else.  Reaching for a QB that isn't at that level, out of need, I'm totally against.   A non-elite QB does not make the same difference as an elite player at another key position does.   It's what we did with Lynch (Chris Jones was our consensus pick if we did pass on Lynch...sigh)....pass on anyone else in that range.   

If there's a will there's a way we can't be scared to trade a big haul if that's what it takes and we identify our franchise guy. The eagles did it with Wentz Redskins with RG3. I know it's risky that's why I'm looking at both ends of the spectrum. Sometimes you just have to put your chips into the center of the table.

[Broncofan]

4 minutes ago, Counselor said:

First of all I am assuming both Rosen and Darnold are gone. Second off I'm assuming these are BPA who fill needs as well. I'm not pigeon holing but instead speculating on how the line could look. Connor Williams may very well be BPA when we pick.

Yup, as we are severely outgunned in draft picks by the Browns, and the Browns & G-men likely draft ahead of us (it would help a lot for NYG to pass us), and Darnold might not even declare for this year.   Gotta be flexible in our plans.

[Broncofan]

9 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

If there's a will there's a way we can't be scared to trade a big haul if that's what it takes and we identify our franchise guy. The eagles did it with Wentz Redskins with RG3. I know it's risky that's why I'm looking at both ends of the spectrum. Sometimes you just have to put your chips into the center of the table.

The issue is 3-fold - first, Darnold could stay in school...and then it's just Rosen.   Secondly, we could just be outgunned for both guys, if CLE is locked in at 1.1 at QB, and NYG just matches us step-for-step for any offer we make, but with a higher pick than we have.   Or BUF decides to use both of its 1st-rounders, and match whatever future picks we offer as well (and remember, teams value future picks much less than present picks, given the longer waiting time before GM's can cash those in and get a return).   

If we were the #3 pick, and there are 2 guys we absolutely have to have (Rosen and Darnold are the only 2 worth that high of a pick), then we can lock it down.  If we have the #6 pick, the G-men have the #3 pick and just will match whatever we offer, and CLE is locked into 1.1 at QB (or there's only 1 elite QB, and they're locked in)....we're SOL.   Again, way too soon to know where we stand - so we have to be flexible.  Lot of different ways this can go.

Finally, as you already highlighted - a deal for a true franchise QB sets up the org for a decade (Wentz).   The wrong deal kills it for 5+ years (RGIII).   You put your chips in the table when you are absolutely sold...and even then, it may not be enough.  Because this isn't poker, it's an auction - and other teams who want QB have a much bigger stack than we do, and can simply beat our max bid, if they so choose.

[Scoundrel]

Kurt Benkert may be our answer a bit later. 

[Broncofan]

Just now, Counselor said:

Kurt Benkert may be our answer a bit later. 

And that's fine too....key being later for him (or Mayfield).   Different ways to go about it. 

[Scoundrel]

6 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

And that's fine too....key being later for him (or Mayfield).   Different ways to go about it. 

Benkert is very impressive. He and Baker are my favorite QBs in this draft. And I'd rather go BPA early in the first and get one of them later. 

My greatest hope is Paxton plays and actually looks competent while only winning 2 or three games to still put us in a good spot draft wise but showing he can get it done.