champ11 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I tend to agree in regards to McNabb and Mariota, but RG3's career wasn't killed by injuries, he was also 'figured out' and was a one read QB for the most part. And while I would kill for Cam in comparison to our recent QB talent, he is overall tremendously overrated and has insane, likely accuracy issues after years in the league. Lamar is a very risky pick. That frame just scares me to high hell. I would still take him if Darnold / Rosen are gone, he is worth the risk. But sometimes its, almost, bad to be so athletic at QB. Look at early Vick, he was a read-and-run guy but it worked for him because he was INSANE elusive/athletic, and Lamar is like that, but even if it works most the time, it opens you to huge hits. And they will come. I think there were a few factors that led to RG3's fallout, but the biggest one for me was the injury. Didn't really give him a chance to grow as a QB, but he had the talent to be a great pocket passer. Shanahan left him in with a busted knee in that playoff game and it killed his career. That's just my opinion, but he was undoubtedly bad after that. He took too many hits his rookie year and that is something you have to learn and improve as a mobile QB. Cam for sure has accuracy issues, but I think he is properly rated. I mean I don't see many people calling him a top 5 QB or anything like that. He was amazing in that 15-1 season and I really think his body has been giving him issues injury wise since the SB. I'm totally fine with being skeptical with Lamar's frame. I just like his ability as a passer and people usually look at a QB being mobile and equate it to being a poor pocket passer. And I thought those examples were odd. Being a mobile QB is GOOD and people seem to act like it's a detriment. Do those players need to adjust to the speed and hits at an NFL level? Absolutely. Do they need to develop their skills in the pocket? Absolutely. But just bc they are mobile doesn't make them any worse at being a pocket passer than other guys. They should be evaluated in the same way and it never happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Smith has the ability to be on Keuchley's level. Very bright mind. Also I like Evans from Bama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 As of now, we are picking 6th. I would expect we ultimately end up between 5-10, likely closer to 5 at the rate this team is going. Of the non-QBs going this high, I would have to imagine Saquon Barkley and Bradley Chubb will be two of them. Minkah Fitzpatrick is another guy who will be up there. Arden Key might be too, but who knows with him. Denzel Ward, Conor Williams....could potentially be there for the taking as well. The Niners, Bengals, Colts, maybe the Chargers...I doubt they take a QB. Cleveland will likely take one. I think if we end up in that Top 7 or 8 group we will have a chance at a QB that falls, and maybe a choice between a few. Darnold (if he commits), Rosen, Jackson, Allen, Mayfield...there's QBs for the taking depending on their offseason performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I generally understand the idea that RB's should not be taken high but if Saquon is there, he is my pick. A generational talent who can immediately give this team an offensive identity, which is freaking huge at this point. We are rudderless and a elite, 'face of the offense' type talent like Saquon would change the dynamic of this team immediately. He is Ezekiel Elliot with better long speed. A true bell cow. R1 - Saquan Barkley RB Trade up into low R1 and take Quenton Nelson OG R3 - Josey Jewell ILB And sign one of Kirk Cousins, Tyrod Taylor, Eli Manning, Teddy Bridgewater (In that order) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I generally understand the idea that RB's should not be taken high but if Saquon is there, he is my pick. A generational talent who can immediately give this team an offensive identity, which is freaking huge at this point. We are rudderless and a elite, 'face of the offense' type talent like Saquon would change the dynamic of this team immediately. He is Ezekiel Elliot with better long speed. A true bell cow. R1 - Saquan Barkley RB Trade up into low R1 and take Quenton Nelson OG R3 - Josey Jewell ILB And sign one of Kirk Cousins, Tyrod Taylor, Eli Manning, Teddy Bridgewater (In that order) I actually think Saquon is in the mix to go #1 overall, if the teams don't need QB. As you said, generational talent (and remember, I argued forever to not take Christian McCaffrey in Rd 1, so I agree with @BroncosFan2010's first take that you don't spend a Rd 1 pick on a RB - when you can get guys like Kamara Rd 3 and Hunt Rd 5, you only spend those picks on generational, HoF type ceiling talents at RB) - but yeah, Barkley is that special HoF ceiling talent. Sadly, I actually think there's more of a chance we can get our QB than Barkley - he's probably the best overall player in the draft, let alone offensive player in the draft. I've been pounding the drum that we are outgunned for either Darnold or Rosen on the assumption we finish 6-10 or 7-9 and so well outside of the top 10. Home games vs. NYJ/CIN and @IND seemed like locks. The way we are playing, no game we should feel like we can win - so maybe we do have a shot at a top 5-7 range pick (we aren't catching SF, NYG or CLE, and our SoS will lose pretty much all tiebreakers). Gotta hope we lose out or go 4-12 though. But given how our D has collapsed...now, it's actually possible. If we are that close to the pick we need, then we can compete for that pick, if we really think either are worthy (but keep in mind we likely pay with our 1st now and next year's 1st as a starter - so if it's a Wentz/Goff, do it...if it's Lynch v2...no thanks lol). Crazy times when 4-12 is actually a possibility for us, but the game film isn't pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 A qb who relies on running as their second option rather than reading a defense almost always fails. Its human nature. Compare a pocket passer to someone who is blind their pocket passing is like their hearing. The more senses you have the less need to focus on one area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: A qb who relies on running as their second option rather than reading a defense almost always fails. Its human nature. Compare a pocket passer to someone who is blind their pocket passing is like their hearing. The more senses you have the less need to focus on one area. this is pure gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Quote A qb who relies on running as their second option rather than reading a defense almost always fails. Its human nature. Compare a pocket passer to someone who is blind their pocket passing is like their hearing. The more senses you have the less need to focus on one area. Ya, I prefer pocket passers but really, really don't understand this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Being athletic and being able to pass in the pocket are not mutually exclusive. That's idiotic. Being able to run is a great asset to have as a QB. Are there QBs that can run that are bad quarterbacks? Absolutely! Are there QBs that can't run that are also bad quarterbacks? Absolutely! Athleticism gets spun into a negative trait for QBs. It's incredibly interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said: Ya, I prefer pocket passers but really, really don't understand this post. A pocket passer can't run so they have to develop as a passer . A running qb can run so he never fully develops reading defenses and moving to throw rather than take off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Quote A pocket passer can't run so they have to develop as a passer . A running qb can run so he never fully develops reading defenses and moving to throw rather than take off. Putting it like this, I certainly agree in a way. Much like an NBA talent who is able to dominate on athleticism so much that they enter the NBA without a jump shot. Still, its not mutually exclusive. The best ones, generally, are those who can do both. Andrew Luck ran a 4.6 40. That, compounded with his NFL ready frame, really makes him an athletic marvel for a QB. I tend to not like running QB's, but rather prefer 'escapable' QB's. I would consider Dak and Russell guys with elite escapibility, rather than RG3/Vick/Cam type 'running' QB's. Its a distinction that each fan will make using their own metrics and opinion, so there is no right answer though. And, as for Lamar, I see him as more of a 'running' QB than an 'escapable' QB, and for that reason I am wary. Especially when it comes to injury. To me the ideal QB for this team would be someone similar to Russ Wilson, because his mobility and escapibility allows him to play at a high level even with a poor OL. We need a QB that can do that because its unlikely the OL progresses to a solid unit by next season. And it has the added benefit of allowing allocation of resources elsewhere. When you can get borderline elite QB play, with little investment in the OL, you can put those resources in other spots. Seattle has done it for years with Russell. It makes his life harder, but it also has allowed them to invest so much in that D and take shots at luxury positions like Graham at TE. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 I would like a QB like Deshaun Watson, who I believe can be elite at both. In today's game, you need some mobility. You don't need to be Mike Vick and look to run first and foremost, and in fact, in today's game that doesn't really work, but having that as a weapon is crucial. Especially, as @germ-x pointed out, because OLs are SO bad these days. Having a guy who is unathletic won't do much for you unless he's Peyton, and those are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Well we didn't have to travel far this past Saturday in order to scout Darnold. And he showed off some pretty good mobility in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 2 hours ago, thebestever6 said: A qb who relies on running as their second option rather than reading a defense almost always fails. Its human nature. Compare a pocket passer to someone who is blind their pocket passing is like their hearing. The more senses you have the less need to focus on one area. Simply not true. Most of the best QBs of the post-PManning/TBrady/DBrees generation are so effective BECAUSE of their athleticism and ability to extend plays as a second option (i.e. Rodgers, Wilson, Wentz, Watson, Mariota, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 The more I see Baker Mayfield, the more I love his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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