2018 College Prospect Thread

[Broncofan]

34 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

You can also play devils advocate and say Bolles at pick 20 was a way better selection than going ot in the top 10 in this draft.

Not if you embrace overall BPA.   You don’t reach for need first vs overall BPA when a clear talent gap exists.  Last year, this year, next year.  

[thebestever6]

10 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Not if you embrace overall BPA.   You don’t reach for need first vs overall BPA when a clear talent gap exists.  Last year, this year, next year.  

Foster no doubt is an elite talent. But hes only played in 6 games this year.  He has injury issues so lets no act like it's been all chalk for him. Bolles has been average but has played in every game. We honestly have to watch their careers unfold before we judge the pick.

Foster literally only dropped because of injury issues.

[jsthomp2007]

18 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Denver has a huge decision on their hands. They can build the foundation for a copeteting team the next 10 years with the first pick. Or they can try and land a franchise qb which is hard to get the better a team gets making it hard to get one the next 10 years.

Yeah but look at what happened when the Broncos made the playoffs with Tim Tebow.  The thought was, if Tim Tebow can take the team to the playoffs, what could a QB like Peyton Manning do.   If the Broncos are terrible, no veteran will ever sign with the Broncos.  But, I get it...draft a blue chip QB and he could be a Bronco for life...or, does a bad team...turn a good QB into a terrible one.  Regardless, I would like to see the Broncos competitive again...where it attract free agents...you know those free agents who think they are the missing piece to a Super Bowl run.  

But, I don't know.  I don't have the answers.  I just saw what worked a few years ago. I also loved and relished the 97/98 teams who were beating teams by halftime, who locked up playoffs spots four games from the end of the season.  But, back then franchise QBs were plentiful.  They just aren't anymore.  So, f***ck...take it..take the best player and build around that.  Take Roquon and make him the best ILB we've had since Danny...shoot...I'd imagine he'd be better.  But, if him and Von can turn it on in big games...who needs to score? 

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Yeah but look at what happened when the Broncos made the playoffs with Tim Tebow.  The thought was, if Tim Tebow can take the team to the playoffs, what could a QB like Peyton Manning do.   If the Broncos are terrible, no veteran will ever sign with the Broncos.  But, I get it...draft a blue chip QB and he could be a Bronco for life...or, does a bad team...turn a good QB into a terrible one.  Regardless, I would like to see the Broncos competitive again...where it attract free agents...you know those free agents who think they are the missing piece to a Super Bowl run.  

But, I don't know.  I don't have the answers.  I just saw what worked a few years ago. I also loved and relished the 97/98 teams who were beating teams by halftime, who locked up playoffs spots four games from the end of the season.  But, back then franchise QBs were plentiful.  They just aren't anymore.  So, f***ck...take it..take the best player and build around that.  Take Roquon and make him the best ILB we've had since Danny...shoot...I'd imagine he'd be better.  But, if him and Von can turn it on in big games...who needs to score? 

To attract free agents you need an elite signal caller thats the only way.  Look at the eagles landing Jeffrey that doesn't happen with marginal qb play.

The best way to get relevant again is improve the oline and qb positions and build from there.

Sustaining an elite defense isn't sustainable it's just not. Having a franchise qb at this point is the best bet.

[Broncofan]

20 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Foster no doubt is an elite talent. But hes only played in 6 games this year.  He has injury issues so lets no act like it's been all chalk for him. Bolles has been average but has played in every game. We honestly have to watch their careers unfold before we judge the pick.

Foster literally only dropped because of injury issues.

Shoulder surgery recovery rates when it’s a non throwing position are pretty much 100 percent for pro football players.  That was bad info.  As stated at that time.  

Inseason Foster has had a HAS.  No risk long term.   The real reason he fell was the overblown character issue.  Elway wasn’t alone in making that mistake.  But so far year 1 it’s a clear mistake.   The fact some ppl want to take Smith with a top 5 pick if QB isn’t there shows that in spades.   Really it started with going G instead of LT Whitworth in FA as so many have noted already but what’s done is done.   But if ppl think ILB Smith is even in the discussion for a top 5 pick now it demonstrates why overall BPA works best in the long run.  

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Shoulder surgery recovery rates when it’s a non throwing position are pretty much 100 percent for pro football players.  That was bad info.  As stated at that time.  

Inseason Foster has had a HAS.  No risk long term.   The real reason he fell was the overblown character issue.  Elway wasn’t alone in making that mistake.  But so far year 1 it’s a clear mistake.   The fact some ppl want to take Smith with a top 5 pick if QB isn’t ther shows that in spades.   Really it started with going G instead of Whitworth in FA as so many have noted already but what’s done is done.   But if ppl think ILB Smith is even in the discussion for a top 5 pick now it demonstrates why overall BPA works best in the long run.  

What players in the top 5 that we have a chance to draft would you view as not going bpa? Besides the top 2 qbs which you have elaborated on.

Because in 2011 I think there were 3 o 4 guys that could of been considered bpa.

[Broncofan]

12 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

What players in the top 5 that we have a chance to draft would you view as not going bpa? Besides the top 2 qbs which you have elaborated on.

Because in 2011 I think there were 3 o 4 guys that could of been considered bpa.

In 2011 all over Von at 1.2.  Like Myles Garrett last year head and shoulders above the rest.   

Right now the big 3 are set.  Darnold / Rosen / Barkley are head and shoulders above the next tier.   The next QB’s don’t even crack the top 20 overall.  Nelson is my 4 I’m with @AKRNA and @BroncosFan2010 there but he’s also a clear step down from the top 3.   Sadly I don’t think Elway will see Nelson that way at least not with Matt Russell as his #2. After that I’m open to changing based on combine / Senior bowl / big game performance.  It’s why finishing in the top 3 picks gives the clearest path.  

[thebestever6]

17 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

In 2011 all over Von at 1.2.  Like Myles Garrett last year head and shoulders above the rest.   

Right now the big 3 are set.  Darnold / Rosen / Barkley are head and shoulders above the next tier.   The next QB’s don’t even crack the top 20 overall.  Nelson is my 4 I’m with @AKRNA and @BroncosFan2010 there but he’s also a clear step down from the top 3.   Sadly I don’t think Elway will see Nelson that way at least not with Matt Russell as his #2. After that I’m open to changing based on combine / Senior bowl / big game performance.  It’s why finishing in the top 3 picks gives the clearest path.  

I agree and I'm not so sure we can say Elway doesn't see it that way. I think he's smart enough to see how important line play is after having a couple of down years after 2015.

I agree with you largely I'm just so torn on taking Barkley that high. I mean look at the Jags with fornette who is a very good back. But Kamira was available round 3 thats alarming. 

I think we have a better shot a guard going high than Barkley. If Barkley is as coveted as people say. I wouldn't mind a big trade down if the qbs are gone.

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I agree and I'm not so sure we can say Elway doesn't see it that way. I think he's smart enough to see how important line play is after having a couple of down years after 2015.

I agree with you largely I'm just so torn on taking Barkley that high. I mean look at the Jags with fornette who is a very good back. But Kamira was available round 3 thats alarming. 

I think we have a better shot a guard going high than Barkley. If Barkley is as coveted as people say. I wouldn't mind a big trade down if the qbs are gone.

If we finish 1.3 behind SF (or later) I don’t think we need to worry about Barkley.  SF clearly isn’t committing to Carlos Hyde.  Barkley at 1.2 fits like a glove.  CLE could even do 1.1 if they trade for / sign Cousins.  

If we finish 1.2 we won’t take Barkley over Darnold/Rosen.   

If we pick below 1.3 then it’s out of our control we can try to move up but nothing is guaranteed then.  Really why we just need to keep losing.  And root for SF/NYG.  Both have winnable games this week.  

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

But Kamira was available round 3 thats alarming. 

Kamara is having a rookie campaign that no one could see coming. He is averaging 8.4 yards per touch, the best EVER for a RB. By like a full yard. No one thought he would be this good, this fast. He also fell into the perfect situation. I just don't think its fair to call out Elway for missing on him. He is outplaying his draft position in a way that no one envisioned.

What we can do is call out Elway for missing on a guy like Foster who everyone projected to become an elite caliber ILB. I think consensus can mitigate hindsight, and Foster was a consensus elite prospect, so anger at Elway for passing on him isn't simply hindsight. He was a known blue-chipper. Any anger against Elway for missing on Kamara is simply hindsight.

 

[thebestever6]

23 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Kamara is having a rookie campaign that no one could see coming. He is averaging 8.4 yards per touch, the best EVER for a RB. By like a full yard. No one thought he would be this good, this fast. He also fell into the perfect situation. I just don't think its fair to call out Elway for missing on him. He is outplaying his draft position in a way that no one envisioned.

What we can do is call out Elway for missing on a guy like Foster who everyone projected to become an elite caliber ILB. I think consensus can mitigate hindsight, and Foster was a consensus elite prospect, so anger at Elway for passing on him isn't simply hindsight. He was a known blue-chipper. Any anger against Elway for missing on Kamara is simply hindsight.

 

I'm not calling out Elway for missing on him. I'm calling  out the value of a top 5 rb in general.

[jsthomp2007]

3 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I'm not calling out Elway for missing on him. I'm calling  out the value of a top 5 rb in general.

And, you are comparing it to last year's draft.  Let's face it, every draft is different, and every draft will have its busts and those gems found in the later rounds who everyone missed on.  

However, the probability of landing a pro bowler in the first five picks has to increase somewhat...ergo, I am hoping for BPA with the top 5...I don't want to see us miss on that one.  If we miss on a Kamara type, or a Russell Wilson type...then we miss on those in the later rounds, because everyone else did too.  

[thebestever6]

16 minutes ago, jsthomp2007 said:

And, you are comparing it to last year's draft.  Let's face it, every draft is different, and every draft will have its busts and those gems found in the later rounds who everyone missed on.  

However, the probability of landing a pro bowler in the first five picks has to increase somewhat...ergo, I am hoping for BPA with the top 5...I don't want to see us miss on that one.  If we miss on a Kamara type, or a Russell Wilson type...then we miss on those in the later rounds, because everyone else did too.  

Or we could look at 2015 when zeke went top 4 a guy like Jordan Howard could be had in round 5. Or kareem Hunt last year. I just don't  view rb as a top 5 pick in any draft. Their shelf life is too short. I feel like its easy to get wear and tear at that position.

Now if you can have someone who just values players for what they  are that's way different. Get all the value you can.

I can say even in the 2016 draft Dallas would of been better off trading up for Wentz  or Goff than  settling for  Elliot. Especially Wentz. 

[jsthomp2007]

2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Or we could look at 2015 when zeke went top 4 a guy like Jordan Howard could be had in round 5. Or kareem Hunt last year. I just don't  view rb as a top 5 pick in any draft. Their shelf life is too short. I feel like its easy to get wear and tear at that position.

Now if you can have someone who just values players for what they  are that's way different. Get all the value you can.

I can say even in the 2016 draft Dallas would of been better off trading up for Wentz  or Goff than  settling for  Elliot. Especially Wentz. 

I agree with you on the running back position.  I mean, unless, there is the next Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith sitting there...okay...I get that.  But, otherwise, you can get a back later to can  boom.  

[thebestever6]

Barkley could be the next AP or he can be the next Ki Jana Carter. We just never know. 

There are way better ways to utilize our picks.