2018 College Prospect Thread

[thebestever6]

1 minute ago, jsthomp2007 said:

I agree with you on the running back position.  I mean, unless, there is the next Adrian Peterson, Barry Sanders, Emmitt Smith sitting there...okay...I get that.  But, otherwise, you can get a back later to can  boom.  

The thing is talent  wise Barkley can be all those all time backs but durability you just never know. 

Heck cowboys didn't  know about Zeke and his  availability with his off the field issues and hes considered an elite talent.

[thebestever6]

I love Barkley just  not in the top 5 for us.

Now, a team like the Colts I think he'd  be perfect for. He'd even be worth trading up for for them. For the simple fact that he can help extend  Lucks career much like TD extended  Elways. It would be worth it for them because it helps their franchise  qb so much.

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Kamara is having a rookie campaign that no one could see coming. He is averaging 8.4 yards per touch, the best EVER for a RB. By like a full yard. No one thought he would be this good, this fast. He also fell into the perfect situation. I just don't think its fair to call out Elway for missing on him. He is outplaying his draft position in a way that no one envisioned.

What we can do is call out Elway for missing on a guy like Foster who everyone projected to become an elite caliber ILB. I think consensus can mitigate hindsight, and Foster was a consensus elite prospect, so anger at Elway for passing on him isn't simply hindsight. He was a known blue-chipper. Any anger against Elway for missing on Kamara is simply hindsight.

 

You are completley  right. But I love what the Saints have done since Brees has been there. They replenished the offensive line pretty smoothly and than identified Kamara and his scheme fit etc. They built a foundation. 

Thats a problem with Elway and his drafting and his coaching decisions. He hasn't  brought in coaches in here that can utilize drafted talent  they just sit here and die there's  like no plan.

[Broncofan]

5 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I love Barkley just  not in the top 5 for us.

Now, a team like the Colts I think he'd  be perfect for. He'd even be worth trading up for for them. For the simple fact that he can help extend  Lucks career much like TD extended  Elways. It would be worth it for them because it helps their franchise  qb so much.

Again though it’s likely a moot point.  If we pick top 2 we aren’t taking him we all take Darnold/Rosen.  

If we pick 1.3 or later behind SF Barkley is gone to SF IMO. If we are at 1.3 we just have to make enough noise that we’d take Barkley 1.3 to force SF to stay put at 1.2 and take him leaving us Darnold/Rosen.   

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Again though it’s likely a moot point.  If we pick top 2 we aren’t taking him.  If we pick 1.3 or later behind SF Barkley is gone IMO. If we are at 1.3 we just have to make enough noise that we’d take Barkley 1.3 to force SF to stay out at 1.2 and take him leaving us Darnold/Rosen.   

I think too much is being  assumed Shanahan is going Barkley. His dad never took an rb that high. The Falcons while he was there never  took an rb that high. His sample size is too small to say definitely at this point he's taking an rb at 2. 

What  stops him from paring foster with that lb from georgia?

Saying something is a moot point this early in the process with the limited sample size on lynch and shanny is erroneous. 

Its why the Bears traded so much to move up for Mitch.

[Broncofan]

11 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I think too much is being  assumed Shanahan is going Barkley. His dad never took an rb that high. The Falcons while he was there never  took an rb that high. His sample size is too small to say definitely at this point he's taking an rb at 2. 

What  stops him from paring foster with that lb from georgia?

Because Shanahan is going to bring in playmakers for JimmyG.  They follow overall BPA.   And consensus has that clearly set either at Barkley & the 2 QB as a separate tier.  Again most teams already ID Barkley as the 1 talent if position wasn’t factored in.  SF took Soloman Thomas at 1.2 even though they went DE 2 straight years because of that same evaluation system.  Overall BPA.   This year there’s a clear top nonQB talent.  The main temptation will be if they think they can trade down and gain additional value to let a team that wants QB to pay up.   Why we need to make noise about Barkley at 1.3 to keep them there at 1.2 IMO.   

SF’s draft history with Lynch last year is telegraphing this.  Can’t lock it in until it happens but this is as CW as CLE taking Garrett 1.1.  The X factor might even be CLE taking Barkley 1.1 if they sign Cousins.    No one can know for sure but don’t see us as in play given we will go Darnold/Rosen (assuming Darnold declares obv) if given the chance and if we aren’t high enough to get them Barkley likely also gone. 

[thebestever6]

12 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Because Shanahan is going to bring in playmakers for JimmyG.  They follow overall BPA.   And consensus has that clearly set either at Barkley & the 2 QB as a separate tier.  Again most teams already ID Barkley as the 1 talent if position wasn’t factored in.  SF took Soloman Thomas at 1.2 even though they went DE 2 straight years because of that same evaluation system.  Overall BPA.   This year there’s a clear top nonQB talent.  The main temptation will be if they think they can trade down and gain additional value to let a team that wants QB to pay up.   Why we need to make noise about Barkley at 1.3 to keep them there at 1.2 IMO.   

SF’s draft history with Lynch last year is telegraphing this.  Can’t lock it in until it happens but this is as CW as CLE taking Garrett 1.1.  The X factor might even be CLE taking Barkley 1.1 if they sign Cousins.    No one can know for sure but don’t see us as in play given we will go Darnold/Rosen (assuming Darnold declares obv) if given the chance and if we aren’t high enough to get them Barkley likely also gone. 

Soloman was the bpa last year no argument there. But taking a d lineman 2 and an rb number 2 is apples and oranges.

I've  heard shanny say multiple times he values rb by committee Atlanta is prime  example  you dont draft an rb at 2 with that approach.

[Broncofan]

17 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Soloman was the bpa last year no argument there. But taking a d lineman 2 and an rb number 2 is apples and oranges.

Overall BPA.  RB normally downgraded unless you are generational HoF ceiling talent.   That’s how Barkley is seen.  I’m not saying it even personally it’s the CW.   I agree with it but frankly it matters little what I or you think. 

You don’t have to agree with him bring the guy but it’s more does SF or CLE see it that way.   Right now most (not all, too soon for that lol, besides some sites gotta be controversial) every accurate source that gets picks like Winston/Mariota 1.1/1.2, Goff/Wentz 1.1 & 1.2 Garrett 1.1 right are saying the same thing about Barkley going top non-QB team, SF or CLE (if CLE goes Cousins) - Kiper, Mayock, SI, WF (both lol), Miller....basically everyone but CBS so far (lol that part about being different for difference sake - Darnold is #20).  All have Barkley #1 on their big board.    You don't have to agree with it - but the CW is out there, and you can't ignore it.   What's unknown is who will pick where and who will want Darnold/Rosen.   If you agree SF is going BPA...well, you can see where this is headed (and frankly, CLE might be in the mix, if they get Cousins too).

Note also that the CW play with a young franchise QB is to give him O skill players   Barkley is seen as both overall BPA and fits that to a T.  Frankly the bigger Q is will CLE think the same with Cousins acquired and 1.1. Neither would be a shocker.  

 

[Broncofan]

5 hours ago, Broncofan said:

BTW, as we wait to see where we end up picking Rd 1 - the plan A is to get our QBOTF, and we need a plan B if the cards don't fall our way (obviously if we pick 1.3 or better, we feel great about getting Darnold/Rosen, but if we don't...well then it gets interesting).

But the draft lives on well after we decide on QB. So let's talk about some non-QB prospects - we've already mentioned OL, a little on ILB...I'd like to mention Day 2-3 RB's.

We know Barkley is likely going top 5, if not top 3 overall.   If we have Darnold/Rosen in our sights, while I absolutely think Barkley could be a generational player, but that's an easy call - QB impact and longevity say Darnold/Rosen.  Pure-talent wise independent of position, Barkley could make a case to be 1.1 pure BPA (but impact at QB matters in the BPA equation, franchise QB makes a bigger impact than franchise RB).

Now, the other RB that I suspect goes Rd 1 that we won't get a shot at is LSU's Derrius Guice.   Frankly, I'm ok with that, because he's got a fair amount of mileage, and if you aren't HoF-ceiling, best-of-your-generation RB, I don't think you are wise to spend a Rd1 pick on RB - the position is that short-lived, and that volatile.   I have a feeling Nick Chubb might get the 3rd RB taken treatment, too.

Booker's got 4 more games to show he can do something between the tackles - he gets a pass for Week 13 as he had the flu and was wiped out (why we went CJ/JC).    He's absolutely a 3rd down weapon we can use - but even then, he'll be entering his 3rd year, and once year 4 is done, we should be saying goodbye - yes, RB is THAT disposable if you aren't elite.   DeAngelo Henderson has raw promise - but honestly, RB is so disposible, we should not get married to anyone to avoid taking a RB (higher ceiling guys in Day 2, flier guys Day 3). 

So now is the year to consider RB (again) -  who would be there on Day 2-3 that we should be interested in?  My thoughts on a few:

Day 2 (Rd 3+)

1.  Sony Michel, Georgia (3rd) -  I actually think he's a better NFL prospect that Chubb.   Better at pass catching, better at pass pro.  Really stood out in his sophomore 2015 year, then took a backseat in 2016-17 for Chubb, but when Chubb was out, did well.   Great 3-down abilities - put on bulk this year, so added toughness to his all-around, mostly-pass catching 2015-6 label.   I love him as a Rd 3 pick TBH.   I think he has the potential to be the next Kareem Hunt / Kamara (not as good as Kamara obv, so few are that good - but the Rd3+ pick that shows he can be a starter).

2.  Rashad Penny, SD State (3rd) - small school will downgrade him like Kareem Hunt, but a great blend of power, speed, and patience.   I'd definitely be fine with nabbing Penny in the 3rd, provided his Combine/medicals hold up (his usage merits this check). 

3.  Damien Harris, ALA (?3rd) - great all around play, outplayed Bo Scarborough, the darling of the BCS.  The only caveat is he's from 'Bama.  So much harder to know if he can play when the OL/DL mismatch isn't as tilted as it is with the Tide. 

I know guys like Bryce Love (and Guice & Chubb, late Rd1/early Rd2) likely are there on Day 2, not feeling they are worth it.  Even Harris I'm iffy on.  Gotta say I love Michel, especially because he probably gets discounted being in Chubb's shadow (another parrallel to Kamara's situation, where they underutilized him).

 

Day 3

Akum Wadley, Mike Weber, Ronald Jones, Josh Adams- all intrigue me if we are into Rd 4-5 or later.    

 

RB's are the most disposable position.  Booker is the only guy we can count on, and not for anything more than a 3rd down role (but much like how NO and ATL have 2 threats at RB, we shouldn't discount getting a true bellcow RB and have Booker be his Robin...and if DeAngelo Henderson can develop, then we have our cheap pair of RB's heading into 2019 with our 2018 draftee, once Booker starts to get expensive).    

Now, final point -  RB's are the weakness in my scouting evaluation - I was all over calling Montee Ball a bust, and wanted Lacy over him, from Day 1 - but also would have taken Christine Michael too.  And I've been expecting better from Booker in-between the tackles than he's shown.   I did love Cook and Kamara the most out of the elite 2017 class top-tier and next-tier, but no one could have seen Kamara explode like he has.   I wonder if Michel is that guy (and best of all, I'd be shocked if he isn't there at 3.x where we pick). 

What do the other draft guys think?

FWIW - I don't envision us taking Barkley, and taking an @AKRNA like glass-full view I'm hoping it's QBOTF Rd1.  So I did work up where I do think we should think about targeting RB...just got lost 3 pages ago.  LOL. 

[thebestever6]

15 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Overall BPA.  RB normally downgraded unless you are generational HoF ceiling talent.   That’s how Barkley is seen.  I’m not saying it even personally it’s the CW.   I agree with it but frankly it matters little what I or you think. 

You don’t have to agree with him bring the guy but it’s more does SF or CLE see it that way.   Right now most (not all, too soon for that lol, besides some sites gotta be controversial) every accurate source that gets picks like Winston/Mariota 1.1/1.2, Goff/Wentz 1.1 & 1.2 Garrett 1.1 right are saying the same thing about Barkley going top non-QB team, SF or CLE (if CLE goes Cousins).  Note also that the CW play with a young franchise QB is to give him O skill players   Barkley is seen as both overall BPA and fits that to a T.  Frankly the bigger Q is will CLE think the same with Cousins and 1.1. Neither would be a shocker.  

 

1) I want your sources of the three going back to 2015 that predict those picks this early in the draft process December 5. Not because I don't believe you but because I just find that impressive that they're  that accurate this early in the process.

2) if you were Shanny and Lynch  and you wanted to get prime trade value what player would  you threaten to draft? I thinl the amswer is Barkley because obviously they got their qbotf.

3) i really can see Clevland getting Cousins and Snyder screwing Jay Gruden by drafting and Trading up for Lamar Jackson.  I think Snyder falls in love with running qbs and needs to have one as the face of his franchise at all costs. 

But if Clevland does get Cousins it brings the trade value of pick 2 way down. All about supply and demand.

[thebestever6]

3 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

FWIW - I don't envision us taking Barkley, so I did work up where I do think we should think about targeting RB...just got lost 3 pages ago.  LOL. 

From everything I've read and seen Sony Michel is viewed as a better prospect than Chubb.

[Broncofan]

27 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

1) I want your sources of the three going back to 2015 that predict those picks this early in the draft process December 5. Not because I don't believe you but because I just find that impressive that they're  that accurate this early in the process.

2) if you were Shanny and Lynch  and you wanted to get prime trade value what player would  you threaten to draft? I thinl the amswer is Barkley because obviously they got their qbotf.

3) i really can see Clevland getting Cousins and Snyder screwing Jay Gruden by drafting and Trading up for Lamar Jackson.  I think Snyder falls in love with running qbs and needs to have one as the face of his franchise at all costs. 

But if Clevland does get Cousins it brings the trade value of pick 2 way down. All about supply and demand.

1.  Do the reading and judge for yourself.   Honestly, it's not that hard to find . You'll be better for it.  Or...maybe accept that guys who do the work FULL-TIME might be more plugged in than either one of us.    Picking Winston & Mariota as top 2,  Goff/Wentz as top 2, and Garrett 1.1 was just that obvious.  Barkley being seen as top of the big board is getting to that level. 

2.  Yes, we should position ourself if we are at 1.3 to target Barkley to force SF's hand.   Need to remove the temptation to think they can move down and still get him.  That's kind of what has been said for the last 3 pages lol.

3.  WAS isn't getting 1.1 for Cousins.   HOU's pick is top 10 though, that's definitely in play. WAS using HOU's pick for Jackson?  They can be my guest lol.  

[thebestever6]

10 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

1.  Do the reading and judge for yourself.   Honestly, it's not that hard to find . You'll be better for it.  Or...maybe accept that guys who do the work FULL-TIME might be more plugged in than either one of us.   

2.  Yes, we should position ourself if we are at 1.3 to target Barkley to force SF's hand.  That's kind of what has been said for the last 3 pages lol.

3.  WAS isn't getting 1.1 for Cousins.   WAS using HOU's pick for Jackson?  They can be my guest lol.  

Where do I find info from December of 2015, 2016, 2017 for the NFL draft.

I checked walter football the info for 2015 stemmed back to 1/18 and it said titans weren't even considering a qb. I checked google and looked for articles nothing all I'm asking for is a source.

And Washington is the most dysfuctional franchise in the Nfl dating back to Gibbs leaving.

Because even when they get something nice in Cousins and Gruden they ruin it, even when they get a good gm they ruin it.

[jolly red giant]

If we don't get one of the top 2 QBs then I want Elway to trade down. No matter how good Barkley is there are too many holes to fill to use a 3rd (or 4th) pick on a RB.

[thebestever6]

15 minutes ago, jolly red giant said:

If we don't get one of the top 2 QBs then I want Elway to trade down. No matter how good Barkley is there are too many holes to fill to use a 3rd (or 4th) pick on a RB.

You think Manning declining aided DT's downfall or his mom getting out of jail? He hasn't seemed like the same plauer since both happened.