Who deserves more credit for the Patriots' success: Brady or Belichick?

[DannyB]

6 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

If you're going to say that about Shula's Dolphins, then you can say that about any organization in the NFL's history.  

Which is why what you're saying is complete hogwash.  

Yes, there were confirmed bad calls in the 70s that had an effect on the outcomes of games.  But, that's the referees and the same thing happens constantly nowadays.  

You never had cases in which an NFL head coach was actually spying on the practice footage of a division rival. 

He literally done what ever it took to win football games.  

Shula had a football team that just happened to be perfect enough to have the one and only perfect season in history without any cheating on their part.  

So you can just keep believing in your little theory there.  

I forgot that you were a top level football executive with Shula during his entire tenure in the NFL and were privy to the inner workings of how things were done there. My profuse apologies.

[Hunter2_1]

10 hours ago, RamblinMan99 said:

Oh, here comes the New England fan out of the woodwork to make an extreme case for why Bill Belichick wasn't the only guy to do it.  

First of all, in no case whatsoever is something like that legal in professional sports.  Just stop there.  

Second, you're taking the case of a head coach who coached in 1950 (a time when technology used for espionage couldn't compare to what's out there today), and clearly needed to be on some heavy medication.  

It's a dumb and baseless example to use for an argument in order to defend perhaps the most notorious cheater in the history of American sports.  

Can you explain why you said it was a practice and not a game?

"First of all, in no case whatsoever is something like that legal in professional sports." - Can you comment on the below then?

"Videotaping opposing coaches is not illegal in the NFL de jure, but there are designated areas allowed by the league to do such taping. Because the Patriots were instead videotaping the Jets' coaches from their own sideline during the game, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell deemed it to be in violation of league rules" - so, taped from wrong spot. As  I said. 

After that, can you explain which Patriot player screwed your girlfriend back in the day?

[Calamity_Cometh]

On 4/11/2020 at 5:50 PM, Nick_gb said:

This comment makes me sick and isn't even close to the truth. The Falcons Superbowl was the biggest TEAM effort comeback. It wasn't anywhere near "All Brady". Hightowers Sack/Fumble with Branch recovering when they were down 28-12 with 8 minutes left in the 4th. Mitchell laying out his body to convert on an underthrown Brady pass. James White taking a direct snap to convert the 2 point conversion to make it an 8 point game. Julian Edelman coming down with a tipped pass when Tom Brady threw it into triple coverage on an unbelievable catch. Amendola fighting for the extra yards to get the 2 point conversion to make it a tied game at 28-28. The defense sacking Matt Ryan to take them out of FG range and from making it a 2 score game.  The defense overall for stepping up and shutting down the Falcons offense when they had their way with them most of the night. If NONE of that happens, the Patriots don't make that unbelievable comeback. 

That game was no way, in no shape or form a Tom Brady comeback it was a New England Patriots comeback and it was the greatest team effort and overcoming of adversity you could ask for from those that take the football field with you. To take away from everyone else and say "That comeback was all Tom Brady" is not only ignorant, but it takes away from those that deserve their due credit for it as well. 

Damn, I got shredded in this thread. Alright, alright, I was wrong. My bad.

[bomont]

Belichek by a country mile. lmfao @ Brady the "GOAT." Yeah that's why their record with backups when Brady was out is about the same right? lol

Course buttloads of cheating by both didn't hurt 

Edited April 18, 2020 by bomont

[Hunter2_1]

15 hours ago, bomont said:

Belichek by a country mile. lmfao @ Brady the "GOAT." Yeah that's why their record with backups when Brady was out is about the same right? lol

Course buttloads of cheating by both didn't hurt 

 

[childofpudding]

FF and people crying about the Patriots is a true classic and has been for years. It's like PB&J baby, ye yeahhhh

[childofpudding]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:24 PM, Shady Slim said:

i think it’s bill 65-35, and everyone should ignore ramblin_man because he’s a troll and will more than happily derail the thread if you let him

what is most key to me is they’re both ATG, arguably GOAT, and it would be clownish to infer any conclusions as to who is more responsible for new england’s success with how their careers progress now, given belichick is rolling with jarrett stidham, and brady is rolling with arians, godwin, and evans, it doesn’t take an expert to know who’s in the more favourable position as of now

I wasnt even joking that much when I said Mo Lewis. Without him injuring Bledsoe, Bledsoe would have remained as a starter for years, the Patriots would likely stay bad to mediocre for years, and there is a good chance that Brady would never get a chance to start and Belichick would eventually be fired.

[lancerman]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:06 PM, RamblinMan99 said:

Oh, here comes the New England fan out of the woodwork to make an extreme case for why Bill Belichick wasn't the only guy to do it.  

First of all, in no case whatsoever is something like that legal in professional sports.  Just stop there.  

Second, you're taking the case of a head coach who coached in 1950 (a time when technology used for espionage couldn't compare to what's out there today), and clearly needed to be on some heavy medication.  

It's a dumb and baseless example to use for an argument in order to defend perhaps the most notorious cheater in the history of American sports.  

The only case you need to make is multiple coaches who had nothing to do with the Pats said they did it and everyone else did it. Cowher being one of them. Or that Spygate wasn’t an enforced rule when they won SB’s

[rfournier103]

On 4/20/2020 at 11:43 PM, childofpudding said:

I wasnt even joking that much when I said Mo Lewis. Without him injuring Bledsoe, Bledsoe would have remained as a starter for years, the Patriots would likely stay bad to mediocre for years, and there is a good chance that Brady would never get a chance to start and Belichick would eventually be fired.

Drew Bledsoe was well on his way to being benched. A 5-11 record in 2000 and an 0-2 start in 2001 (the Mo Lewis game was on its way to being lost before the hit occurred) did not bode well for Drew. Boston sportswriter Michael Holly, who spent two years embedded with the Patriots for his book “Patriot Reign” has said on a couple of occasions that it was coming. 
 

Even though Bledsoe had signed a 10 year contract with the Patriots, there was definitely a reason the Patriots drafted Brady and kept him as a fourth string QB in 2000. Bledsoe wasn’t Belichick’s guy, just like Kosar wasn’t in Cleveland. 
 

To say Brady would never start is just not accurate. It was a matter of time. He actually jumped over backup Damon Huard to become the starter. 

[ILoveTheVikings]

At the end of the day it is the players who are the ones making the plays. You could have the best gameplan in the world but without top end talent you'll get nowhere.

[childofpudding]

1 hour ago, rfournier103 said:

Drew Bledsoe was well on his way to being benched. A 5-11 record in 2000 and an 0-2 start in 2001 (the Mo Lewis game was on its way to being lost before the hit occurred) did not bode well for Drew. Boston sportswriter Michael Holly, who spent two years embedded with the Patriots for his book “Patriot Reign” has said on a couple of occasions that it was coming. 
 

Even though Bledsoe had signed a 10 year contract with the Patriots, there was definitely a reason the Patriots drafted Brady and kept him as a fourth string QB in 2000. Bledsoe wasn’t Belichick’s guy, just like Kosar wasn’t in Cleveland. 
 

To say Brady would never start is just not accurate. It was a matter of time. He actually jumped over backup Damon Huard to become the starter. 

If I remember correctly, Holly as well as other reporting also speculated that Belichick was on the hot seat as well. It is possible that he rides Bledsoe a little too long, Patriots have another dismal season, and Belichick is gone. And then who knows how the QB situation would shake out. It's certainly possible that without the Bledsoe injury, neither Belichick nor Brady become what they have become, and the dynasty never happens.

[sportjames23]

On ‎4‎/‎6‎/‎2020 at 11:27 PM, PapaShogun said:

What about getting to the Super Bowl? How many road championship games did they lose? My argument wasn't that they couldn't win a road game. It's that only having to play two games most years (mostly at home) to get to the Super Bowl partly because 3 other inept franchises can't get their **** straight over the course of 20 years is a nice feather in your cap to have. The Patriots have been a great team, and they've been getting help from their division rivals. It's not their fault, it's just what happened. If we're gonna talk about what advantages/disadvantages dynasties have/had, I think it's fair to list that as one of them. 

Can't dispute this.  As a Dolphins fan, I can say our division has flat out SUCKED for 20 years.  Indeed, it's not New England's fault that Miami, Buffalo and New York have been trash all that time, but damn if it didn't give the Pats basically a free ride to the playoffs and AFC Championship almost every year.

[rfournier103]

8 hours ago, childofpudding said:

If I remember correctly, Holly as well as other reporting also speculated that Belichick was on the hot seat as well. It is possible that he rides Bledsoe a little too long, Patriots have another dismal season, and Belichick is gone. And then who knows how the QB situation would shake out. It's certainly possible that without the Bledsoe injury, neither Belichick nor Brady become what they have become, and the dynasty never happens.

As bad as Bledsoe was playing, there’s no bleeping way Belichick sticks with Bledsoe all year. Drew was going to be demoted by Week 8 at the latest. Especially if Bill was on the hot seat.