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Who is the ONE player you'd trade up for.

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10 minutes ago, broncosfan_101 said:

His man coverage is a bit work in progress, but I’m impressed with his zone. And yeah, his read-and-react is elite. He’s not the prototypical stack-and-shed ILB, but if the DL can keep him relatively clean, he’s gonna make so many plays.

I don’t see consistent play recognition or read-and-react skills at all. I see a guy who is able to use his elite athleticism to burst downhill when he guesses right, and those plays have propped up his stock. There are way too many mental mistakes to be a plug and play linebacker, and his role at OU didn’t really resemble anything an NFL linebacker does. He has the athleticism, character and attitude that give him a nice baseline of tools to build from, but he will need serious schooling and that’s not worth the capital. Put him on the field in 2020 and he’s going to be a serious liability. 

Edited by BroncoBruin

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I think this is moot because I don’t think there’s any way Fangio would want a player like Murray. The amount of whiffs alone probably takes him off his board. The one LB they’ve “met” with is Joe Bachie, who is basically everything Murray isn’t, for better and worse.

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Ya, I dont get the Murray love. I know everyone wants that next 3 down coverage ILB but Joe Bachie really checks all the boxes outside man cover abilities. He knows where the RB is going before the RB does half the time. He is really growing on me, especially after years of falling for the more LB/S hybrid types in hopes we get a coverage guy. In todays sub-package heavy defenses you can get TE matchups against safeties much more than in the past. That makes a guy like Bachie more hidden in terms of his weaknesses IMO. 

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1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, I dont get the Murray love. I know everyone wants that next 3 down coverage ILB but Joe Bachie really checks all the boxes outside man cover abilities. He knows where the RB is going before the RB does half the time. He is really growing on me, especially after years of falling for the more LB/S hybrid types in hopes we get a coverage guy. In todays sub-package heavy defenses you can get TE matchups against safeties much more than in the past. That makes a guy like Bachie more hidden in terms of his weaknesses IMO. 

And I think our unathletic LBs were far more exposed in the Wade/VJ scheme than in Fangio’s. LBs are critical in this scheme with their effect on passing lanes as zone defenders but they aren’t stretched athletically in the same way. Certainly being an athlete is a plus and makes everything easier, but it’s predominantly a mental game in the middle. 

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I like Murray.  He’s going to be a good player for a long time.  I currently have him in the top 25.  Always around the football and I found him to be better than expected in zone coverage.  But he plays reckless (honestly that’s his only major knock). He’s going to over pursue and give up a big play here and there and at times he goes completely rogue.  Which won’t be for everybody for everybody for sure. 

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Zach Baun is the LB that I think could interest Fangio I currently have him at #28, but he played edge and reportedly is saying he’ll move to off ball LB.  He’s risky because playing inside and attacking the LOS and sifting through traffic is different. But he’s REALLY good in zone coverage and brings versatility.

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17 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I like Murray.  He’s going to be a good player for a long time.  I currently have him in the top 25.  Always around the football and I found him to be better than expected in zone coverage.  But he plays reckless (honestly that’s his only major knock). He’s going to over pursue and give up a big play here and there and at times he goes completely rogue.  Which won’t be for everybody for everybody for sure. 

They really didn’t ask him to do anything but sit behind the LOS and chase the ball. I think there’s a significant learning curve for Murray to work at LB, and you’re betting on the athleticism. 

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20 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

They really didn’t ask him to do anything but sit behind the LOS and chase the ball. I think there’s a significant learning curve for Murray to work at LB, and you’re betting on the athleticism. 

I’ll have to disagree with that.  Vs Texas and Baylor the 2 games I watched he was asked to cover RBs and drop into a zone a reasonable amount.  Now the covering running backs was more just getting to the flat if they leaked out.  But he has the range to be very effective in zone coverage.  Maybe he won’t be, but he has the athleticism.

Interestingly with you mentioning this, it crossed my mind watching all of these LBs....why is it hard to find cover LBs?  The NCAA game requires LBs to cover.  This isn’t the 80s or 90s.  Everyone runs shotgun and everyone throws the ball more.  Now some of that is basically extended handoffs, but it would be incredibly hard in today’s college football not to have cover experience. 

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2 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I’ll have to disagree with that.  Vs Texas and Baylor the 2 games I watched he was asked to cover RBs and drop into a zone a reasonable amount.  Now the covering running backs was more just getting to the flat if they leaked out.  But he has the range to be very effective in zone coverage.  Maybe he won’t be, but he has the athleticism.

Interestingly with you mentioning this, it crossed my mind watching all of these LBs....why is it hard to find cover LBs?  The NCAA game requires LBs to cover.  This isn’t the 80s or 90s.  Everyone runs shotgun and everyone throws the ball more.  Now some of that is basically extended handoffs, but it would be incredibly hard in today’s college football not to have cover experience. 

I agree that he has the athleticism but people make the mistake of assuming that’s a cure-all. The Lions assumed they could coach Jarrad Davis into being a competent coverage LB because he is a good athlete and it hasn’t happened. We’ve seen guys with sideline to sideline range who just didn’t “get” the nuances of pass defense.

I don’t think there’s a whole lot of sophistication to the vast majority of college defenses in general, and players don’t develop pro skills. They’ve almost ceded the sport to offenses in a lot of ways. The alignment of the hashes also makes it such a different game from a spacial perspective. You have these overhang defenders who have no real role in the pro game. 

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2 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

I agree that he has the athleticism but people make the mistake of assuming that’s a cure-all. The Lions assumed they could coach Jarrad Davis into being a competent coverage LB because he is a good athlete and it hasn’t happened. We’ve seen guys with sideline to sideline range who just didn’t “get” the nuances of pass defense.

I don’t think there’s a whole lot of sophistication to the vast majority of college defenses in general, and players don’t develop pro skills. They’ve almost ceded the sport to offenses in a lot of ways. The alignment of the hashes also makes it such a different game from a spacial perspective. You have these overhang defenders who have no real role in the pro game. 

Yeah, but just in general players spend more time in coverage than ever.

But as far as Murray you’re right, instincts are a large part that get left out.  I don’t think there is anything to suggest he can’t be good in this area aside from he’s aggressive and as I said it works against him at times.  Fangio has done some crazy stuff using LBs in zone coverage.  In the playoff game with Chicago he twice had Roquan Smith drop from ILB into a boundary 3rd while bringing a CB blitz....Murray is a guy that could provide that can provide that type of talent.  But he’s no doubt best running sideline to sideline and attack the LOS.

Either way I think it’s moot for Denver.  They won’t take him at #15 (and shouldn’t) and I don’t see them trading up for him.

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22 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

I mean he wasn’t asked to do it (cover) much. It’s an area of growth but he showed that he has the skills to do so. From the mental side of the game, I think that’s one of his best traits. His instincts are top notch. 

Are we watching the same guy?  His instincts are far from top notch. Watch him against Baylor the first time around. He missed countless tackles being out of position and made terrible reads after snap. His speed is the only thing I see as a plus. 

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Isaiah Simmons. He's the 2nd best player in the whole draft.  I share UK's thoughts on the Oklahoma Kid. Don't really care to trade up for a  #2 WR. 

 

I'd trade into the bottom of the first for Biadiaz because Fangio said Glasgow is going to play RG.

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13 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

Isaiah Simmons. He's the 2nd best player in the whole draft.  I share UK's thoughts on the Oklahoma Kid. Don't really care to trade up for a  #2 WR. 

 

I'd trade into the bottom of the first for Biadiaz because Fangio said Glasgow is going to play RG.


Eh, Biadasz would be a reach even at 46. Absolutely no need to trade into the bottom of the first for him. 

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2 hours ago, paul-mac said:


Eh, Biadasz would be a reach even at 46. Absolutely no need to trade into the bottom of the first for him. 

Yeah agreed wholeheartedly. I think he might be around with our 3rd to be honest.

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