GSUeagles14 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 11 hours ago, mse326 said: The owners are asking for the same thing they are now, but the players started by demanding full salary and during negotiations dropped their demand down to pro rated. Would you still blame the players for not trying to meet in the middle? what was negotiated and agreed to in march isnt really relevant now. Heck, I believe theres communications between the players and league that negiotations wmight be necessary down the road when they agreed to certain things in march. But relevant to today, whats in the "middle" is subjective. IF the players listened to the league on what was important and what they needed, and they met some of them, then sure. But most of the key points on both sides have been ignored. So both are at fault. I know you dont like that, its ok. We can disagree with each others opinions. What i cant let go is living in lala land thinking you know things that are simply unknowable to you. Youre absolutely entitled to your opinion but you dont know all the facts, however much it upsets you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 4 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said: what was negotiated and agreed to in march isnt really relevant now. Heck, I believe theres communications between the players and league that negiotations wmight be necessary down the road when they agreed to certain things in march Of course it's relevant. You are basically saying you agreed to early should have waited longer 4 hours ago, GSUeagles14 said: What i cant let go is living in lala land thinking you know things that are simply unknowable to you What fact did I state that is unknowable to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 5 hours ago, mse326 said: Of course it's relevant. You are basically saying you agreed to early should have waited longer What fact did I state that is unknowable to me. welp, here we are with a difference of opinion again. even if i agreed, maybe they did agree too early. again, im fairly sure there was communication that further negotiation might be necessary even back then. but this is moot. its not what happened for like the 14th time, both sides have negotiated extremely poorly. as far as what you tried to state as fact thats unknowable, look back through your posts. i called it out a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mse326 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said: as far as what you tried to state as fact thats unknowable, look back through your posts. i called it out a couple of times. I've stated two things as fact. Only two. 1. The notion that teams are barely profitable in normal times is absurd 2. The notion that the teams will lose money by playing a game, i.e. the revenue generated from the game will be less than the cost of playing the game, is absurd. Those are the only two things I've stated as facts. If you honestly think that either of those are unknowable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Owners just got off a conference call. Should find out what they are mandating for a season soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Just pondering some of the numbers. Quick google search says MLB takes in about $1.7 billion annually from national TV contracts. That's split between the 30 teams and then breaks up into 162 pieces per team in a normal year. That ends up being just under $350k per game. A non-major market like the Reds get about $60 million annually from their local TV contract., break that up into 162 pieces, and there is another $370k per game, so now the total is up to about $720k per game. According to Fangraphs the Reds 2020 payroll is $144 million, broken up into 162 pieces, that's roughly $889k per game. Now, in normal years, gate revenue, concessions, merchandise, parking, etc... more than makes up that $160k difference in a game. If there are no fans, there goes all of the gate revenue, all of the concession revenue, and a significant chunk of the merchandising revenue. Just gate revenue is a huge loss, if we take an average attendance of 20k/game with an average ticket price of $21.14 in 2019, that's $422k per game lost right there if there are no fans in the stands. Personally, if I take my kids, I have to spend almost as much on concessions as tickets if I let them get food there, and that's not even counting the extraordinary amount of over priced beer sold at MLB games. From my quick layman attempt at looking at costs, they are losing out on about $1 million of revenue for every game played without fans That's just some of the big chunks though, while i'm sure i'm missing some revenue streams, the costs almost remain the same for other fringe costs I didn't calculate, such as field staff, medical staff, travel costs, hotel costs, utilities, city taxes, supplies, catering, coaching staff, etc... They do save on concession staff, ushers, and cleaning staff though. I'm not really taking any side here, I just want to try to understand the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 20 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: Just pondering some of the numbers. Quick google search says MLB takes in about $1.7 billion annually from national TV contracts. That's split between the 30 teams and then breaks up into 162 pieces per team in a normal year. That ends up being just under $350k per game. A non-major market like the Reds get about $60 million annually from their local TV contract., break that up into 162 pieces, and there is another $370k per game, so now the total is up to about $720k per game. According to Fangraphs the Reds 2020 payroll is $144 million, broken up into 162 pieces, that's roughly $889k per game. Now, in normal years, gate revenue, concessions, merchandise, parking, etc... more than makes up that $160k difference in a game. If there are no fans, there goes all of the gate revenue, all of the concession revenue, and a significant chunk of the merchandising revenue. Just gate revenue is a huge loss, if we take an average attendance of 20k/game with an average ticket price of $21.14 in 2019, that's $422k per game lost right there if there are no fans in the stands. Personally, if I take my kids, I have to spend almost as much on concessions as tickets if I let them get food there, and that's not even counting the extraordinary amount of over priced beer sold at MLB games. From my quick layman attempt at looking at costs, they are losing out on about $1 million of revenue for every game played without fans That's just some of the big chunks though, while i'm sure i'm missing some revenue streams, the costs almost remain the same for other fringe costs I didn't calculate, such as field staff, medical staff, travel costs, hotel costs, utilities, city taxes, supplies, catering, coaching staff, etc... They do save on concession staff, ushers, and cleaning staff though. I'm not really taking any side here, I just want to try to understand the numbers. You could use the Braves as an example if you wanted to estimate a general team's non-player related costs, since Liberty Media has to disclose their finances. But then again that's only one team and could be thrown off by any specific investments they're making at the moment. But the rest of the teams in baseball will never, ever tell you how much money they make or how much they spend, precisely to prevent fans and players from doing this type of exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JammerHammer21 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Man, the owners suck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrubes20 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 1 hour ago, JammerHammer21 said: Man, the owners suck "We have to keep these kids out of our game at all costs! And by all costs, I mean tens of thousands of dollars! We have our 5th vacation homes at stake!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, hrubes20 said: "We have to keep these kids out of our game at all costs! And by all costs, I mean tens of thousands of dollars! We have our 5th vacation homes at stake!" I took it more as, you can't offer a player $20,000 to sign and then $1.5 million in "continuing education scholarship" *wink* *wink*, but I wouldn't be shocked if it is screwing the little guy yet again either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 32 minutes ago, THE DUKE said: I took it more as, you can't offer a player $20,000 to sign and then $1.5 million in "continuing education scholarship" *wink* *wink*, but I wouldn't be shocked if it is screwing the little guy yet again either. Read the thread after the first tweet; Cooper explains why there is very little potential for using this program to meaningfully circumvent bonus pools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 lolololol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 (edited) EDIT: Edited June 15, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrubes20 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 7 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: EDIT: Damn. That Shaikin tweet seals it then. Hopefully they at least can agree on some kind of expanded fall league for the prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, hrubes20 said: Damn. That Shaikin tweet seals it then. Hopefully they at least can agree on some kind of expanded fall league for the prospects. I could see the MLB asking for a reasonable waiver of claims to damage as a result of a COVID infection that came as a result of playing or traveling to play or anything related to job performance. I get that. But "any legal claim against the league" is absurd. May as well ask for a blank check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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